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Thread: Little introduction to Fiesta.NET and LaserMATRIX - video!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbk View Post
    Fiesta.NET OEM
    wonder how much those run?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelosh View Post
    That Fiesta.NET PRO rack version (3xILDA out) is €2650 and that's including the software. Now if you couple the projectors together and switch X axis, you can get pretty amazing show for 6 lasers.
    Or go for 3xMatrix and you get circus of 24 lasers.
    And you have a spagetty of ilda cables....

    If you put 3QM's in a PC and 3x matrix you have the same spagetty euh i mean circus.


    the Fiesta.net (OEM) does sound interesting, but if you use for example 30x Fiesta.net can you control each laser totally independent, or are they following the master?
    If you can control each laser connected to Fiesta.net separate what is the limitation.
    For qm.nets the limitation is 32 at the moment.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mccarrot View Post
    And you have a spagetty of ilda cables....

    If you put 3QM's in a PC and 3x matrix you have the same spagetty euh i mean circus.


    the Fiesta.net (OEM) does sound interesting, but if you use for example 30x Fiesta.net can you control each laser totally independent, or are they following the master?
    If you can control each laser connected to Fiesta.net separate what is the limitation.
    For qm.nets the limitation is 32 at the moment.
    difference is to put 3 QM's in a PC you need a desktop (or some VERY expensive PCMCIA>PCI enclosure)... the Fiesta.net PRO is a 1U rackmount enclosure... so you could hook it up to a WAP and use it wirelessly to a laptop for example...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tormod View Post
    As my experience with pangolin products is limited to a few weeks of testing i might be wrong on some parts, but i find comparing fiesta to pangolin products somewhat hard.
    It boils down to what suits you.
    I think this is the most accurate statement. Some people use Photoshop. Some people use Paint Shop Pro. Some people use Corel Draw. Some people use InDesign. Some people even use MS:Paint... It all depends on what you want to do and your comfort level with various software.

    Since Pangolin was mentioned, I won't mind putting my own two cents in...

    I've seen it happen a lot. People compare products (any products) on the basis of a brochure, or words on a web site. The problem is, everybody has brochures and web sites, so, if you look on this basis alone, it can be easy to think that two companies are roughly the same. Below are some things that we believe set Pangolin apart from all others.

    1. SOLID AND EASY TO REACH Pangolin has been in business for nearly 25 years, and is a multi-national organization having offices in the United States, Europe and China. Thus, it is always easy to reach us for sales or service.

    2. STRONG SUPPORT OPTIONS Pangolin has a staff of 15 people, and we offer nearly 24-hour customer support through telephone, email, and the dedicated “LaserChat” forum on our website.

    3. UNIQUE OFFERINGS Pangolin offers unique and powerful software, with advanced technical capabilities not found anywhere else, including real time video tracing, Asteroids laser game, 3D software conversion technologies and our BEYOND calculation engine. These let you create shows quickly and with the highest projected image quality.

    4. FREE UPDATES Pangolin offers free updates for the lifetime of any product. Simply download an update from our website at any time. As an illustration, LD2000 customers have received free updates for more than 11 years!

    5.THE MOST POPULAR Pangolin has more than 15,000 clients in 63 countries. If you need to hire a show programmer or rent a system for a gig in a far-off city, you are likely to find a Pangolin user who can help.

    6. UNQUESTIONABLE PRODUCT QUALITY Pangolin’s software and hardware have won more than 20 technical achievement awards, including one most recently for Lasershow Designer QuickShow (highest place technical achievement award for 2010). This illustrates the quality of our products.

    7. UNQUESTIONABLE RESULTS FOR OUR CLIENTS Pangolin clients have won the vast majority of ILDA artistic awards, typically receiving somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of all awards each year. This illustrates the quality of the shows produced by clients using our products.

    8. INDUSTRY CONSCIOUS Pangolin has demonstrated unwavering dedication to and participation in the industry, serving in top positions within ILDA, and supporting lower-level organizations such as Photon Lexicon and LaserFreak, thus we help to shape the industry as a whole, rather than reacting to changes.

    9. AHEAD OF THE PACK Pangolin is a leader in terms of invention and innovation. We pioneered features like the timeline-based laser show creation system, OpenGL laser preview, RGB “true color”, Projection Zones (whose patent will finally issue early 2011 by the way), network-connectable laser controllers, and many others. Thus, users of Pangolin software are always ahead of the pack.

    10. CONTINUED INNOVATION Pangolin has seven issued and several pending patents. This shows that we are continuing to invent and innovate.

    11. AFFORDABLEVery affordable pricing – in many cases the lowest according to published US and European websites.

    12. EASIEST TO USE People who switch from other systems to Pangolin tell us that our software is the easiest to use. (Hehe, of course this is a matter of opinion, but people tell us they prefer Pangolin.)

    13. EASY TO UPGRADE Just pay the difference in price between versions and we can often email you a file immediately.

    14. SATISFACTION GUARANTEED We offer a 90-day money-back guarantee (and are the only company in the industry who offers this, and have offered this for at least the last 20 years). If you are not satisfied for any reason, simply return the system for a full refund.

    15. CLIP-ART FRAMES Each system includes tons of free clip-art frames, done by award-winning artists around the world.

    16. Pangolin Shows Portal All registered Pangolin users have access to a portal where they can ulpload and download free laser frames, shows, workspaces, useful utility programs, and software updates. Although this has been active only for a short time, we already have more than 55 shows, more than 50 new frames for QuickShow, a brand new workspace for LivePRO, and many more things.


    To me, it all comes down to one word -- VALUE. What company is going to give you the most value for your money -- not only today, but 10 years from now?

    Best regards,

    William Benner

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
    13. EASY TO UPGRADE
    except for adding more QM cards...

    especially now with the FB3 QS.... why would I spend $3000 on two more intro systems to run 3 projectors when I can buy 3 FB3's AND LivePRO for less than that?

    AND I don't have to worry about having to deal with PCI cards, or spending an extra $700 per QM on a .NET enclosure?

    I think you really need to think about what makes sense right now with the QM2k systems... the thing is 10 years old, its designed for a bus thats quickly disappearing (my new desktop does not even have a PCI slot) AND you have a solution that costs less and is easier to manage (USB) and can use the same software for live shows???? (LivePRO)

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by flecom View Post
    I think you really need to think about what makes sense right now with the QM2k systems...
    Hehe. We are thinking about it!!

    The QM2000 is still great hardware, even more than ten years after its initial introduction to this market. I predict it will be around for many more years, and this prediction is based on the success of our QM32 before that and QM16 before that -- some of which are still around! And we don't perceive the PCI to be a problem as most people purchase with QM2000.NET these days.

    One thing to keep in mind is that the entire LD2000 series is made for true laser professionals. That is -- people out there pounding the pavements every single day and doing shows like you see here:
    http://www.pangolin.com/powered/

    It is not (necessarily) made for people doing shows in their basements. Cost of a QM2000.NET is far less of a factor for people like Hugo Bunk or George Doddworth who are paying tens of thousands of dollars for a single high power laser.

    And I really think your circumstance is a bit unusual Frank, which is why you are the main person up here on forums complaining about our prices. As stated by another person above, for a typical scenario (typical users here on PL), the price of LD2000 could very well be lower. And even if it were higher, look at what you get? Can any single company even come close to matching the 16 points noted above? Even close?

    For casual laser users, that's why we came out with QuickShow. Perhaps you would be more happy with QS as a platform? You could certainly sell your LD2000 series on eBay, since Pangolin products also hold their resale value very well. (Hehe, point number 17...)

    In the future, BEYOND will be here, and people can certainly do what they want. They can purchase FB3, QM2000, whatever. BEYOND will work with all Pangolin hardware, even in mixed/matched environments.

    Best regards,

    William Benner

  7. #27
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    I wouldent sell my QM system because I still like making prerecorded shows... Plus I think it would be in bad form due to the arrangement we had when I got it (LC-Flash etc)

    And I DO do professional shows, I have done several shows for money now... Additionally houses in Miami do not have basements

    That's why I want to acquire extra interfaces (which at this point it looks like there's a bunch of FB3's and ANOTHER copy of LivePRO (guessing I can't use my QM copy? )

    But most shows that actually pay $$$ are done live (LivePRO is the best thing I have invested in IMHO!)

    So what are your "pros" using that they can't use FB3's for? Most stuff is done live as far as I know right? Which means LivePRO... which is almost exactly the same on an FB3 as it is on a QM2k... So please tell me what the pros are doing that REQUIRES a QM2k?

    I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I am just frustrated with my situation since I WANT to continue using Pangolin but I am still trying to pay off the hardware I already have... So spending over 3x as much on QM stuff when I can do all the same things with FB3's I just can't justify it

  8. #28
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    Well one of the reasons why we've started to develop Fiesta back in 2004/5 - there was not a single laser show controlling system, which would be flexible enough *for us* and *our shows* (no matter if live or music synchronized). And *for us* there isn't any till today, except the one, which you can by the way download and test for free at http://www.showtacle.com/products/fiesta-net... Fiesta.NET PRO is just another step forward to actually get rid of "spagetty" of any cables.

  9. #29
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    Hi Bill,

    Although I use your software frequently for graphics (partially because there's no other option on the market working with 3D S Max), I'd like to comment on some of your points:

    no. 1. doesn't mean anything - you've clearly started when there were so few lasers and software manufacturers around that it probably wasn't very difficult to survive for the first 15 years.

    no. 2. Tried few times, forum help was always quicker and more precise (thanks PL!) - but you always answered within 12 hours! I LOVE your saying: "Question isn't IF it's gonna work, but WHY it doesn't work!"

    no. 3. Not everyone likes to pay for stuff they don't need or want. True professionals (where QM2000 is aiming for) usually programme the shows themselves so they don't need all those "free" shows etc.

    no. 4. I STRUGGLED WITH THIS ONE A LOT!!! It took me 3 months to get LC-MAX free update and finally it happened only because I bumped to Francesco (THANKS MAN!) at Frankfurt.

    no. 9. Every software and hardware has some good stuff which none of the others have, including yours!

    no. 11. Affordable? Yeah, right, OK.... isn't it actually most expensive out there?

    no. 12. Not sure whether those people were programming shows using assembler or even binnary code before, but to learn to work with Pango (LD2000, Showtime, LivePRO) took me few weeks. I grabbed basics of Fiesta in 3 hours and was able to create effects and synchronised show straight away! Installation is also quite a lot easier with Fiesta.
    I have to say worst so far was Phoenix3 in terms of use (although seeing demonstration I was purely amazed) - on the other hand I didn't spend more then half hour with it (because I didn't manage to get any laser output within those 30 minutes ).

    Thanks.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelosh View Post
    Hi Bill,

    no. 12. Not sure whether those people were programming shows using assembler or even binnary code before, but to learn to work with Pango (LD2000, Showtime, LivePRO) took me few weeks. I grabbed basics of Fiesta in 3 hours and was able to create effects and synchronised show straight away! Installation is also quite a lot easier with Fiesta.
    I have to say worst so far was Phoenix3 in terms of use (although seeing demonstration I was purely amazed) - on the other hand I didn't spend more then half hour with it (because I didn't manage to get any laser output within those 30 minutes ).

    Thanks.

    You need to look at Quickshow. I'm sure you sell it, maybe you've just not used it personally.

    OK its not as professionally featured as LD but I'm positive the next generation of LD software will be a lot easier to use and far more powerful.

    You mention ease of use, well QS is by far the easiest software to use out there. 1 clicks is all it takes to display a frame - 1 click to select the frame and 1 click to enable output, and once output is enabled its 1 click subsequently for every frame you select. There's no learning curve with basic display. Anyone can do it from the off without training.

    On the subject of Projector Zones you mentioned above, I've never used Fiesta so can't comment beyond saying isn't it confusing assigning zones to cues on the fly, as how do you then remember which cue is assigned to which zone in the workspace as you try to make live selections from a workspace full of mixed zone allocations?

    Seems to me far easier to do what I would do in QS if I had a multiprojector set up and thats just set up a page of cues for the satellite projectors already pre-assigned to those zones and then its easy as simply clicking a cue on that page and it will then automatically go to that projector. A different projector is as simple as clicking a different page tab and then a cue on that page - 2 clicks.

    BTW, if you haven't played around with QS, you might not know but the preview window can display output from up to 9 zones of projectors at once, not bad for non professional software:


    Click image for larger version. 

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