Senior Member
Sorry, I don't remeber saying anything about projector zones...Originally Posted by White-Light
But 1 click away from show applies in F as well. I meant 3 hours for stuff like effect and show creation.
And I did use QS for about a week, just to try it. Works well, but you can edit and create effects (if I remember correctly) and that's something I have to be able to do.
But otherwise for the money it's ok.
Senior Member
Out of interest Mr Whitelight, how many of the competitors products have you used to be able to make such bold claims as
I appreciate that you've had plenty of time on the QS software, and have a 'special' involvement with Pangolin, but it might be useful to understand your background with the competition so people know how to take your opinions.well QS is by far the easiest software to use out there
To be honest, 1 click for this or that isn't necessarily a high priority for people doing 'pro' live shows, LivePro isn't the dragon lots of people make it out to be, yes there's lots to it, but its all relevant and reasonably obvious to anyone who uses production software. Just needs a bit of time on it.
I'm not interested in an easy to use product if that means it doesn't do quite what I need it to. Thats why I find Fiesta an interesting product, as it looks like a 'fresher' product than the alternative QM Pango system.
At the moment I'm reasonably happy using multi FB3+LivePro combo, but if the time came to step up/over to another product, I may well be inclined to look to Fiesta rather than QM.
However, one thing that does puzzle me - why is the Fiesta.NET Pro box more than the cost of 3 separate Fiesta.NET boxes? that smaybe something to look at, because if it was 2.5 times the price, they'd probably move significantly more, and I expect its cheaper to produce anyway.
I wish we could get away form that term. Lets face it, a good number of QS systems are going to end up being used on paid shows, some at quite a high level. Its just a budget line, not 'not pro'. For a large number of live show situations, FB3 and Livepro is absolutely the appropriate solution.non professional software
I get a bit sick of the way Pangolin draw this line and refer to the upper echelons of the laser world as the 'real pros', which sort of implies everyone else is a bit 'less worthy'. It smells a little bit 'high and mighty' sometimes.
Last edited by norty303; 12-08-2010 at 04:59.
Senior Member
It does cost more because it actually IS more expensive to manufacture.
Senior Member
Am I the only one who wonders how it is possible that 'this guy' has €XXXXX worth of laser gear, but does not have a suitable rack for his equipment ?
Let's stack it backstage on four blocks of foam.
What possibly could go wrong
Senior Member
Hehe. Maybe you don't know your history. We started at a time when Laser Media, Image Engineering, Laser Fantasy, Laser Images, and Laserland all had competitive software. And if you think it's easy for any company to remain in business for 25 years -- especially to remain in business over the last few years, well, I disagree ;-)
I can't speak to your experiences, but I am sure you will find literally hundreds of people on PL who will tell you that they were able to get through on the phone in the middle of the night, and received lightning-fast responses by email. But speaking of email, remember that it is not 100% reliable. Emails can get caught in spam filters or lost on virus-ridden servers. If anyone sends an email to Pangolin and does not receive a response within 24 hours, assume we did not receive the email!
It's an interesting point and one which we will take into account as we craft the deliverable for our next-generation system. However, again, we see Pangolin's prices quite competitive, or even lower than the competition, even with the extra stuff that you apparently do not value as highly as others.
Again, I can not speak to your specific circumstances because I do not remember them. It could be that emails sent from you were not received, or understood by me. I am happy that Francesco was able to help you, which is actually another benefit, since we have dealers in 35 countries -- one way or another, we will get your problem solved!
Not as far as we can tell! I thought Wightlight's math showed that Fiesta is more expensive? Also, what about Lasergraph DSP? As far as I know that is more expensive. And what about LOBO? As far as I know that's about a factor of 10 or 20 times more expensive!
Specifically in the case of our QuickShow software, as far as we know, it has the lowest price of any similar package, according to prices published on US and European web sites.
And yes, of course you can edit effects. Every effect that is included with the workspace was was done using QS.
And if our software wasn't affordable, how could you afford to use it yourself?
Again, I can not speak to your specific circumstances, but I can only relay the information which our users tell us all of the time, and also we find the same sentiments here on PL.
But by the way, there are a few important points that all PL members should know who are reading this.
1. You sell Fiesta, and therefore you have an apparent steak in their doing well.
2. We sell (and make) Pangolin, and therefore we have a steak in our doing well.
Our two opinions might not be worth much, or, at the very least, should be looked at with skepticism, or examined very closely to determine the truth as it applies to each reader.
I will leave you with one final point. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Certainly I get the impression that you believe Fiesta is professional level software, and that the company has been around for years. If that is true, why is it that (as far as I know) not even a single ILDA artistic Award was won using Fiesta, whereas more than 300 have been won using Pangolin?
Best regards,
William Benner
Last edited by Pangolin; 12-08-2010 at 07:57.
Senior Member
I have downloaded previously demo versions of Zion, Mamba Black and some others and in my experience QS was the only software I've ever picked up and been able to figure out straight away. However, I appreciate others experience may be different. Just my opinion based on my own experience.
I also readily understand where Martin is coming from on other Pangolin software. I have TraceIt, ShowTime and some other stuff on my pc that I find relatively difficult to use.
The point I was trying to make is that QS has been a step forwards for ease of use and I understand that this is the direction that Pangolin products are heading generally.
Well your interpretation is not what I meant. Sorry if I gave that impression. I was just trying to distinguish between QS and Beyond or QS and LD. Maybe a better term would have been Semi-professional software.
Senior Member
Well, I would think that a certain amount of that comes down to whether or not a piece of software is designed for show creation or not. There are some great 'busked' live shows being done weekly, but as they are not a packaged piece, will never get entered or even qualify for the award. That doesn't make the software less worthy (imo). How many Livepro shows have won the award Bill?not even a single ILDA artistic Award was won using Fiesta, whereas more than 300 have been won using Pangolin?
Equally, longevity and history doesn't necessarily mean that a new product can't be very good, right from the start, especially if the right people are involved.
Chamsys is a good example of a company entering their market (lighting desks) with an excellent product and getting good market share quickly.
Senior Member
Indeed, but George has had 20 years experience making laser desks first.
Speaking of which, I still prefer to run shows from a desk than a PC. For live work I think it is the far better solution. I am still reting to convince George to design a Midi laser desk, which can interface with PC show software.
Senior Member
this year? allot, I probbably missed some:
Live Stage Show
1st: "Tinchy Stryder Opener for MOBO Awards, BBC 2009", ER Productions
2nd: "Playing Shadow", HB-Laser
3rd: "Beyonce "I Am Yours" at Wynn Las Vegas", Laser Design Productions
look here
http://www.laserist.org/awards2010.htm#artistic
If I look at this list there are 2 companies leading:
1: LOBO
2: Pangolin
Last edited by mccarrot; 12-08-2010 at 10:50.
Senior Member
Really? Were those shows played live in Livepro?
@quasar - sort of my point really. Just because a company is relatively new doesn't mean that they are starting from ground zero on the knowledge and development path.
Sorry for the lack of detail. My Internet is down and it's painful typing on the phone!
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