First public show - venue problems

[chad]

For us on the other side of the pond... What is a PAT certificate?

chad

[norty303]

It's not a certificate anyways, but...

PAT = Portable Appliance Testing

Any non-permanently installed electrical device over a certain voltage should be periodically tested for things like visible damage to flex, earth bond, insulation integrity, etc You should keep records of when items were tested which is where this 'certificate' thing comes up, but could equally be a spreadsheet, a database or indeed some scribbles on a notepad.

It's just that commercial companies like fancy folders full of individual sheets for each asset (or at least companies like providing them, at exceptional cost of course...)

There is so much H&S 'guidance' on this is difficult to know where to start, and lots of differing interpretations. Typical H&S minefield really.

[chad]

Portable Appliance Testing, I can't think of anything similar on a consumer end here in the us. We have UL certs like the CE mark but nothing for the consumer. Who tests it?
So do you have to get your toaster PATed down? Microwave?

Sorry for another ignorant question but what is H&S? I am assuming government, bureaucracy.

chad

[DMills]

Pat only really applies to equipment used at work.

The scene with PAT is really that there is a duty under the "Electricity at work" act that requires that reasonable steps be taken to ensure that equipment is safe.
The easiest way to demonstrate that reasonable steps have been taken is to give the kit a periodic once over and test, record the result and you are all good.
Of course there is a whole raft of bullshit that surrounds this simple concept, with courses, special machines and software to make your management of this larky easier.....
The reality is that if you are doing it right 95%+ of the problems found are picked up on a visual inspection (loose screws in plugs are a favourite), and you very rarely see a problem that makes it past visual but fails on the tester.
Also of course the companies that offer to provide this service employ monkeys who sometimes don't do the visual correctly....

PAT if done right really just formalises what we should all be doing anyway (Inspect the kit before you use it, do periodic maintenance and test).

H&S is an abbreviation for health and Safety, usually as in the weanies employed by councils and other large organisations to misunderstand the advice (generally very good) and directives coming out of the health and safety executive (think our version of OSHA).

Regards, Dan.

[chad]

Ok great, thanks. That clears it up.

chad

[stanwax]

Should still probably be tested, even when new, some kit arrives in a poor state from new.

Yeah better get them done, some guy called Rob Waxalot built the lasers so who knows what they will be like

As for certificate you are right Adam - of course what I mean is his own paper record of the PAT testing of his equipment

[norty303]

I hate the whole PAT situation to be honest. I've just bought a PAT machine and will shortly be doing the C&G 2377 course (so I can prove I'm 'competent' in the eyes of the law) as its cheaper than paying someone for 1 years worth of testing my kit.

What I dislike is the raft of courses on the market that claim once you've done the course and bought a tester you have your own small business! Thats not right in my opinion, PAT testing has become a real industry in this country, and its meant people tend to spread a lot of misinformation as its beneficial to those who make a living from the testing.

[gashead]

What I dislike is the raft of courses on the market that claim once you've done the course and bought a tester you have your own small business! Thats not right in my opinion, PAT testing has become a real industry in this country, and its meant people tend to spread a lot of misinformation as its beneficial to those who make a living from the testing.

I had a chap come into my work who was tasked with testing *all* (and I mean all) devices that plugged in at work.

The chap was getting 25p per device, (or cable) you should have seen his eyes light up when I showed him the 4 plastic boxes of kettle leads

I suppose what was worse was he was told that "all equipment must be tested, and for this it must be powered off" which is fine for Desktop pc's and toasters and kettles but we aren't permitted to shut down any of the servers in the data centre.. ever. so the guy does a "Visual" test.

Complete load of bull, he stuck 600 stickers, one per server and all he was looking for was if there was smoke coming from it

Oh, and sorry.. I think it was me who mentioned the "PAT Certificate" which is what I'd been asked for on the job I was talking about in my above post.. was also difficult explaining to the venue that there is no such thing as a "certificate".

Ho hum.

Cheers,
N.

[norty303]

The chap was getting 25p per device

Thats bloody cheap! Some places are >£4 per item

[DMills]

As I say, a great many monkeys out there in the PAT game.

A particularly good one is when they hit a theatre and proceed to tell management that the 15A sockets used for dimmed power are "Illegal", they are nothing of the sort (But this is their standard trick when coming across anything they are unfamiliar with).

The real doozy we had (I got the money back!) was a company who tested everything and sent us a results spread sheet, which upon investigation listed EVERYTHING on the entire site as class II (double insulated), that caused me to act mildly miffed on the telephone.

As I say the farting about with the machine should be almost an after thought, the real business is inspecting cables, strain relief and glands, checking the screws in the plugs for tightness and (While you have everything down out the rig) giving the optics a clean and making sure everything is nice and tight).

I actually quite like the need to do it as it means that all that PM that otherwise gets cut on cost grounds (foolish but it happens) can be quietly rolled into something that "Is a statutory duty...".

Regards, Dan.