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Thread: Sell Quickshow Special price $435USD!! Brand new from China!

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradfo69 View Post
    I see hobbyists making their own cases in photos all over PL. If they're undertaking the metalwork, where is a list of what needs to be done to make it approvable?



    My son's stepfather owns a welding shop... if I were to ask Warren to build me a case that I draw out on paper, how can I ensure that what he was making would be "FDA approveable?"
    You would have to submit your product report to the CDRH and get a variance (approval). There are several conditions that must be met to make sure no laser radiation escapes. It might take several months/years and several revisions to (both to possibly your projector and your paperwork). What you are getting from them is permission to *vary* from their established laser guidelines.

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    Smile Re: Sell Quickshow Special price $435USD!! Brand new from China!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradfo69 View Post
    What is it, or more specifically, what needs to be done to build a case that's CDRH approved or "approvable". Have they published guidelines somewhere? Aside from the obvious things like possibly interlocks... it's a thick metal box with a few holes cut/drilled in it. What else am I missing?
    As Doug already mentioned, the big issue is filing a laser product report and getting the CDRH to accept your self-certification of the box. The specs are all published in 21 CFR 1040.10 and .11.

    Another major issue is the quality control system that you're required to have in place before you introduce a case (or an entire laser projector) into commerce. Part of this system is a requirement that records be maintained on each projector sold, so that in the case of a recall issue you can immediately contact everyone who is affected by it.

    X-laser has a *very* comprehensive system in place, both for the quality control testing of their projectors during assembly, and for testing just before they are shipped to the customer. Likewise, they maintain a database of all their sales, in order to satisfy the recall requirement. This is one of the requirements listed under 21 CFR 1040 for companies that want to sell laser projectors (or certified cases), and it's one of the major factors driving up the cost of these devices here in the US.

    It's almost a sure bet that any supplier from China will be unable to meet these requirements, unless they have an office here in the US where they keep these records. (The CDRH must be able to inspect these records at any time; that's not possible if they're kept in China...) Thus Mark's point is valid: the projectors that Lily Yang is selling are *not* CDRH-compliant projectors, and it is *illegal* for them to sell these projectors here in the US.

    If you order one, and it gets seized by customs, you are screwed. You have no recourse, because you are importing an illegal product. Granted, the chances of being caught are slim, but do you want to take the chance?
    X-Laser for example, has a number of products that appear to be built into the same case that Laserworld uses for some of their lines. And, if nothing else, LW does appear to have a pretty well made case. I'm quite certain Dan has sourced them from someplace besides LW with how much he loaths them but, what needs to be done TO that case upon delivery to ensure it is "FDA approved"? And where are those guidelines?
    See above. Read through 21 CFR 1040.10 and .11. Yeah, I know it's like reading Greek, but after a few run-throughs it starts to make sense.

    The actual case features aren't really that big of a deal. It needs to be sturdy enough to contain the laser light everywhere except at the aperture. You need a case-intrusion interlock with at least 2 switches. You need an E-stop that requires physical action to re-set. You need a key-switch, and the key must only be removable in the off position. You need an emission indicator. You need a power-on delay of some kind (actual number of seconds is not defined, but assumed to be at least 5 seconds). You need proper labels on the projector, and near the output aperture. If you are using solid-state lasers, current interpretation of the rules suggests that you don't need a shutter, though one is still recommended.

    Then you need a quality control system to test that all these features are installed (and working), and finally you need a method to keep track of who you've sold them to. You'll also need an operator's manual. And then you'll be ready to file the 34 page Laser Product Report (including many supporting documents, such as your operators manual, your quality control test procedure, and other information relating to the construction, sale, and use of the box). And you must do *all* of this (and receive an acceptance from the CDRH) before you can sell your first box as a varianced projector.

    Oh, wait, I forgot one other part... You also need to verify that your buyer already has an approved laser light show variance before you sell him a projector.

    Now do you see why the projectors that X-laser sells (and the LT-1000 cases w/ paperwork that One Stop Laser Shop sells) are so expensive? There's a lot going on behind the scenes...

    Adam

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    Default Re: Sell Quickshow Special price $435USD!! Brand new from China!

    Quote Originally Posted by mophead View Post
    You would have to submit your product report to the CDRH and get a variance (approval). There are several conditions that must be met to make sure no laser radiation escapes. It might take several months/years and several revisions to (both to possibly your projector and your paperwork). What you are getting from them is permission to *vary* from their established laser guidelines.
    You find some one like me who has the 1990s hard copy plus the "laser letters" that clairify some issues, and pay about 60$ to photocopy all of it, and I'm not making a whit of profit at 60$. That is easier then trying to decipher the on line PDFs that are shortened versions of what used to come in the "packet" intended for manufactures.

    I'm POed enough that I'm willing to consider letting some one scan it all in and post it. That is letting go of what I and many people would consider a "trade secret" in the past, but now it seems merely pointless. Here is my problem... How to insure that only US Citizens get the data, and do not sell it overseas?

    I hate to be a nationalist here, but my fear is a the overseas crowd will do a loose copy and claim its compliant, thus jamming up the system even more.

    Steve

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    Smile Re: Sell Quickshow Special price $435USD!! Brand new from China!

    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    Here is my problem... How to insure that only US Citizens get the data, and do not sell it overseas?
    Maybe scan it and send it via E-mail to selected members?

    Adam

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    Default Re: Sell Quickshow Special price $435USD!! Brand new from China!

    (Thanks Adam.) I know it's a paperwork nightmare. I'm thinking specifically about what I might build in the future. For example, one thing I want to attempt myself and experiment with is a lumia box. Since the only legal source for a case that I'm finding is One Stop, $2,000 is a bit more that I'd like to pay for something like that. I'm more wondering about what features the metal box it's going into should contain in an effort to meet the "letter of the law" so to speak, from a safety standpoint. Obviously I'm not looking to manufacture and sell them. Although... there is aways the possibility of aiming it at the ceiling during a slow wedding song that could cause it to ultimately fall into the category of, "entered into commerce".

    Naturally the other issue is, if people like Marc and individuals that are in business can't get paperwork for a WHOLE SYSTEM through in a year or two... how on earth would you even get a metal box approved before you even figured out what you're going to put in it. The system is most definitely flawed here in the good 'ole US of A.

    You answered my question as to where to find the information so, I'll search for it and during the next insomnia bout, I'll see what I can decipher.
    Last edited by Bradfo69; 03-29-2011 at 07:31.

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    Default Re: Sell Quickshow Special price $435USD!! Brand new from China!

    quote:
    how on earth would you even get a metal box approved before you even figured out what you're going to put in it. The system is most definitely flawed here in the good 'ole US of A.
    end quote

    There is a answer to that. Answered in a PM.

    Steve

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    Default Re: Sell Quickshow Special price $435USD!! Brand new from China!

    no suprise
    no reply from lily email or on here.
    nuff said then, i will just take it as spam then
    When God said “Let there be light” he surely must have meant perfectly coherent light.

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    Default Re: Sell Quickshow Special price $435USD!! Brand new from China!

    I only took a quick glance to the web site, but I don't see in this post mentioning selling the FB3 with Quickshow. Could it be selling a Quickshow CD (likely bootleg) only and the buyer thinking he is getting a complete FB3 package?

    @Marc: No way any of those projectors are varianced, but what can anyone do to stop them from claiming they are - except call them out here on it?

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    Default Re: Sell Quickshow Special price $435USD!! Brand new from China!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phredy1 View Post
    I only took a quick glance to the web site, but I don't see in this post mentioning selling the FB3 with Quickshow. Could it be selling a Quickshow CD (likely bootleg) only and the buyer thinking he is getting a complete FB3 package?
    I can't see Lanling doing that against Pangolin. I imagine they wouldn't be backwards in going after bootleggers through the courts.

    Product is here and shows the FB3:

    http://www.lanlinglaser.com/sdp/5172...lin_Quick.html

    Most likely just a discounted price but once you add in import taxes it doesn't really make sense.

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    Default Re: Sell Quickshow Special price $435USD!! Brand new from China!

    Quote Originally Posted by buffo View Post
    You need a case-intrusion interlock with at least 2 switches.
    just use torx/hex screws, then you don't need case interlocks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradfo69 View Post
    how on earth would you even get a metal box approved before you even figured out what you're going to put in it.
    ah the million dollar questions... IIRC what OSLS did was do a product report for their box with every possible type of laser they could think of... so whatever you put in it, is already covered...

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