Page 1 of 9 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 84

Thread: Saw DigiSynth first-hand last night... |8~O

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    2,342

    Default Saw DigiSynth first-hand last night... |8~O

    DigiSynth creator, Matt Polak, lives in the northern Ohio area and invited me to come down for a few hours to shoot the breeze, talk tech, and check out the new DigiSynth 3 software he and his group had been working on. For those of you not familiar with DigiSynth, it IS truly a new way to control lasers and generate laser imagery from your computer. DigiSynth is based on concepts derived from analog audio synthesizer equipment, with pattern building blocks you can 'patch' together by drawing wires between their input and output ports. There are many categories of building blocks to choose from: oscillators, sequencers, filters, colorizers, modifiers, and control surface I/O, each with unique uses and capabilities.

    If you're like I am, inexperienced with traditional analog synthesizers where black boxes are literally patched together with audio patch cables, then it can be a little hard to imagine how one would go about creating laser artwork from such a system virtualized into a computer. I was skeptical that a beginner, someone lacking an intuitive knowledge of the math of oscillatory patterns would be able to create anything good with such a system, but this visit has changed my perspective. Not only is it relatively easy to create interesting and beautiful patterns with this software, the time it takes to get the hang of it is likely less than that taken by someone learning a timeline-based software for the first time. By starting with the most common building blocks and patching them together, it's almost impossible to not get something beautiful out, and each time you sit down to make something, you wind up with something new and different that would be nearly impossible to create with other software available on the market. As it turns out, what I thought was a weakness of not having a structured environment is actually one of its great strengths.

    Forget what you know about frames, boring X-Y-Zoom-Spin animation, and traditional 3-oscillator abstracts. Although you can use these as blocks, the heart of this software begins with a continuous analog output stream, always flowing to the projector, that you 'bend' in time, X,Y,Z, and color with the building blocks available in the patch builder. Using the software and trying out different blocks in different interconnecting ways to generate patterns is actually a joy, partially because your laser (as well as the sophisticated preview screen) is projecting the entire time, giving you feedback with every change and tweak you make. You literally build shows and artwork on the fly with continuous output to show you every change in real-time. Generating patterns with synchronicity is straightforward due to the built-in synch ports among blocks and intelligent octave stepping and de-tuning features in the oscillator building blocks. Tweaking these patterns in real-time is simple through the use of commonly available MIDI control surfaces, as well as mouse input. Once you have interesting patches built, you can sequence them and layer them in the timeline editor to create a show.

    One of my favorite things about this software is that while using it, one will be creating things literally no one has ever seen or imagined before. Not faint shadows of common things, or outlines of virtual 3D objects, but a full-on optical assault of color, pattern, and beat that is worthy of a paid ticket. This is why it won so many awards at the ILDA conference, and I expect it will continue doing so.

    Unfortunately, one of the big drawbacks, at least for us as non-professionals, right now is the cost. Unless you're a pro or planetarium operator, it'll likely be out of you're budget, but if you get the change to see a DigiSynth show, don't let it pass by. Matt, I'm going on record asking for a demo at SELEM 2011. From what I saw, we'd be really missing out without it.



    http://www.youtube.com/user/DigiSynt.../1/pjNuhgjwYYQ

    http://www.youtube.com/user/DigiSynt.../3/rNAh30bLlx8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA6eL3xOAOg&feature=fvsr
    Last edited by drlava; 05-03-2011 at 15:48.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    1,930

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drlava View Post
    Unfortunately, one of the big drawbacks, at least for us as non-professionals, right now is the cost
    too bad... can we at least get some pics to drool over (when available)?
    "its called character briggs..."

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    El Paso, Texas USA and Juarez,Chihuahua Mexico
    Posts
    296

    Default thanks

    I so want to also see this live. Thanks for the update. Just WOW!!! And this is someone else just describing it. Can't wait... technology rocks. In time this will be a very available technology. Even for non-professionals.
    Wiki:The first visible wavelength laser diode was demonstrated by Nick Holonyak, Jr. in 1962.



    FS: hi grade SEAL DUST

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    3,590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drlava View Post
    Unfortunately, one of the big drawbacks, at least for us as non-professionals, right now is the cost. Unless you're a pro or planetarium operator, it'll likely be out of you're budget...
    thats the other thing, the only people that are really going to want something like this are the old school planetarium guys which there are very few of left... most planetariums don't run laser shows anymore, and if they do its just "hit play on the ADAT and walk away"... or, in the case of the planetarium down here, they have too much money tied up in pangolin stuff to consider spending money on new software and interfaces... additionally most science museums/planetariums don't have much money laying around...

    besides planetariums most live laser stuff is beam shows so having an amazing abstract generator isn't very useful...

    it looks like an amazing product, and if it were a bit more affordable I would probably buy it just to have it but I am afraid they have priced it out of the realm of possibility for most people...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eindhoven, The Netherlands
    Posts
    921

    Default

    Sounds like the concept can also be done in any software synthesizer with a sound card DAC. Pure Data is an open source implementation of Max/MSP and would be quite suited for something like this.

    In fact, I've already driven galvos with a PD patch and was pretty happy with it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    SoCal / San Salvador / NY
    Posts
    4,018

    Thumbs up

    Well-spoke, Sire... I, personally, am, uh, 'chomping at the bit' (pun? to work with this magik-box... The only thing I would, well.... not even really 'differ' with, is:

    Quote Originally Posted by drlava View Post
    ...it IS truly a new way to control lasers and generate laser imagery...
    ..I guess I see it as more of a 'resurrection' of the some of the greatest tools, inspired by the werks of *several* of the 'Founding Fathers' / Co's, etc, (not just one..) re-enabling the Grand Lost Art of being a Live Laserist (...but with the added-benefit of a 'Record button ... yeah, sure, we have 'LivePro', blah, blah, blah, (which has its 'place'...) but, as you say, this approaches things from a whole 'new angle'... And allows you to take things to whole new heights of complexity / amazingness, yet with flexibility... I, for one, can't wait to play! Thanks a lot for causing me to me drool...

    Quote Originally Posted by flecom View Post
    ...most planetariums don't run laser shows anymore...
    Hopefully, this will help 'resurrect' interest: seeing some of the lost-FX that made people fall in love with laser shows to begin with - IMO, sure - there *was* a 'novelty-period', years-back, but how, then, do you explain the ongoing-success of places that still use / play some of the 'old-skool / classic' fx? (ie: LFI-magik up in Seattle, etc..) Clearly, there is still a 'thirst' for this kind of stuff, among the 'next generations', and the 'push-play / walk-away / cookie-cutter/lasershowinabox'-approach, just ain't satiating that thirst...

    ...ie: Was blown-away to hear of One 'notable' planetarium in the Eastern US, basically say 'umm, this isn't working, bye-bye, now', to one of the "industry leaders", because all they insisted on doing was pushing more XY-boxes down the Clients' throat...didn't / couldn't offer anything like this, and the contract-renewal went to someone that offered just some 'basic' layered-fx (like lumia, etc) and some live-control / flexibility... Kudos to that 'winner'...it's just too-bad that place didn't hear of DigiSynth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney3K View Post
    Sounds like the concept can also be done in any software synthesizer with a sound card DAC....
    Well, we're all-eyes, Mr Stone...

    cheers....
    j
    Last edited by dsli_jon; 05-02-2011 at 05:07.
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Under a rock in Cambridge UK
    Posts
    1,353

    Default



    .................................................. .................................................. ....................

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flecom View Post
    besides planetariums most live laser stuff is beam shows so having an amazing abstract generator isn't very useful...
    You're not the first to say this, and It is rather ironic that some people feel this way. If you look at the majority of beams that people do, they are technically "abstract." Unfortunately, because the industry has spent the past 15 years being shown very simple abstracts, the concept of what an abstract really is is lost on most people. We even have components for creating or wrapping around 3D geometric shapes, but by abstract, we simply mean "not a point-point image/animation." We can run those too, but we've not released a frame editor yet, so we've not made a big deal about it. Most people have another product that can make frames, so we're fine to just import those as needed.

    I was visiting a well known professional lasershow company after the cruise last year, one of my pals there was working on colorizing an animated moving grid pattern for a beam show. He had been working on it for a while, going through the lengthy process of creating something new (rather than just recycling imagery) in a popular piece of software, so I thought I'd take a stab at it in DS. I was able to create the effect very fast by connecting a few simple components together. It is very fun to say "What is that, a 12-dot moving grid?" and 30 seconds later have it scrolling neatly with colormod. I have created more content, faster than ever using DigiSynth.

    Quote Originally Posted by flecom View Post
    it looks like an amazing product, and if it were a bit more affordable I would probably buy it just to have it but I am afraid they have priced it out of the realm of possibility for most people...
    Yeah, it's not for the light of wallet, but it is intended as a professional programming platform, and the price is in line or less than other professional products out there. Years of dedicated work have gone into creating the cleanest possible output with the highest flexibility, and we have to give it the chance to return that investment. People are in fact buying it, and making great use of it, so we must be doing something right!

    It's definitely not a $500 thrash & flail "Fischer-Price: My First Lasershow" What it is, is my favorite piece of software, and it is far more than what anyone, even myself has been able to describe with words. I'll try to get more photos and screen shots too.

    I do hope you all get a chance to experience it in person, it will change the way you think about lasershows, and remove several limitations often thought inherent in the medium.


    Have an awesome day!

    Chuck Rau
    DigiSynth Development Team

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    3,590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laserchuck View Post
    You're not the first to say this, and It is rather ironic that some people feel this way. If you look at the majority of beams that people do, they are technically "abstract." Unfortunately, because the industry has spent the past 15 years being shown very simple abstracts, the concept of what an abstract really is is lost on most people. We even have components for creating or wrapping around 3D geometric shapes, but by abstract, we simply mean "not a point-point image/animation." We can run those too, but we've not released a frame editor yet, so we've not made a big deal about it. Most people have another product that can make frames, so we're fine to just import those as needed.

    I was visiting a well known professional lasershow company after the cruise last year, one of my pals there was working on colorizing an animated moving grid pattern for a beam show. He had been working on it for a while, going through the lengthy process of creating something new (rather than just recycling imagery) in a popular piece of software, so I thought I'd take a stab at it in DS. I was able to create the effect very fast by connecting a few simple components together. It is very fun to say "What is that, a 12-dot moving grid?" and 30 seconds later have it scrolling neatly with colormod. I have created more content, faster than ever using DigiSynth.
    in reality you are not making frames during a live show, most people use some sort of "live grid" a-la QS2, LivePro, full auto (has a live controller etc)... do you have "presets" or some kind of grid that can be used for quick live stuff? or is it all knob/fader based like a proper analog console?

    so while your software CAN be used live (just like an analog console could be) and would be great for a really nice planetarium style show (in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing obviously) I just don't see it as idea... but who knows, maybe seeing it in person would change my mind, but I really doubt it


    Quote Originally Posted by Laserchuck View Post
    Yeah, it's not for the light of wallet, but it is intended as a professional programming platform, and the price is in line or less than other professional products out there. Years of dedicated work have gone into creating the cleanest possible output with the highest flexibility, and we have to give it the chance to return that investment. People are in fact buying it, and making great use of it, so we must be doing something right!

    It's definitely not a $500 thrash & flail "Fischer-Price: My First Lasershow" What it is, is my favorite piece of software, and it is far more than what anyone, even myself has been able to describe with words. I'll try to get more photos and screen shots too.

    I do hope you all get a chance to experience it in person, it will change the way you think about lasershows, and remove several limitations often thought inherent in the medium.


    Have an awesome day!

    Chuck Rau
    DigiSynth Development Team
    and thats fine, but really, you mention $500 for a "my first laser show" software package... for $500 you can get a QS2 interface, which has a pretty powerful (non-live, non-modular) abstract generator, that I have used to make some pretty neat abstracts... plus your getting a full live controller and USB interface for that price, so while its easy to dismiss it, at the same time I think you are going to underestimate how many of those things they are going to sell to both average people and night clubs etc...

    now, that can be both good and bad... because QS2 is limited, you can say "look what we can do!" but its bad because people will say "well that one was $500, why is yours so expensive?"

    like i said, maybe my opinion will change, and I hope you don't think I am attacking you or your product, I think what you guys have made is great, and like I said, if I had the money I would buy one, but I am just trying to be realistic

    also why would I want this software over say, a real analog console with physical knobs and faders?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flecom View Post
    in reality you are not making frames during a live show, most people use some sort of "live grid" a-la QS2, LivePro, full auto (has a live controller etc)... do you have "presets" or some kind of grid that can be used for quick live stuff? or is it all knob/fader based like a proper analog console?
    Ahh this is part of the awesomesauce... the DigiLive surface allows images to be selected, and once they are, then the controller such as the BCF2000 becomes active for performing THAT image. This adds a new depth of control to the live performance. click on the image for a bigger version, you can see a few of the images I had whipped up at the point this was grabbed.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ds3liveexample_107.png 
Views:	86 
Size:	589.5 KB 
ID:	24828


    Quote Originally Posted by flecom View Post
    like i said, maybe my opinion will change, and I hope you don't think I am attacking you or your product, I think what you guys have made is great, and like I said, if I had the money I would buy one, but I am just trying to be realistic
    Nah, I don't feel attacked, and I'm sorry if I'm coming off like a prick, I certainly don't mean to. I do enjoy a lively discussion. I've got a big job of educating people about what DigiSynth really is. It isn't a replacement for anything out there on the market currently, it is a whole new product that approaches things in a completely different manner. We weren't out to copy anyone else, but we did want to recreate some of the lost classic laser imagery.

    Honestly, we're not in it for the money. We slave away at it for the love of the art and the desire to put out a quality product. It isn't for everyone, but those that jump in get to experience a wild ride. Kinda like an amusement park, eventually kids grow out of kiddyland and want to ride the big rides. I'll always look back at those little cars and planes that go 'round and 'round, but the ones that let you drive are much more fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by flecom View Post
    also why would I want this software over say, a real analog console with physical knobs and faders?
    Oh man, well that is easy, real analog has horrible noise issues, very bad blanking techniques, and low repeatability. DigiSynth allows sample-accurate repeatability, unprecedented cleanliness and all new blanking techniques. Oh, no one said you have to give up the knobs and sliders, I use the BCF2000, as stated above. it gives me 8 motorized faders, 8 rotary knobs and like 20 buttons, so there is plenty of control to go around, all of which can be assigned individually within a patch to serve your needs for that image, and re-purposed as needed.

    Gone are the days of crappy analog signals and lost patches that could never be recreated. It's like taking the best parts of analog abstracts and bringing them into the 21st century. And then put those images onto a timeline, capture the performance of them, and bake em out or distribute / play back as needed. It is a slick way of making shows, and I'm not going back to the alternatives.


    Makes me want to go play with it right now!

    Chuck Rau
    DigiSynth Evangelist

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •