Legally stopping an illegal laser show before it starts?

[JohnYayas]

I grew up when the drinking age was 18 and as pre-teens we would play with M-80s that people brough up from South Carolina. Times have changed. I wouldn't really say for the better. You can probably guess what my take on all of this is.

[MLS]

Find a "Regional Electro-Optical Specialist" List is on the back of your VARI.

You should know they do inspections.

Steve

Thank you very much, there it was infront of me the whole time. I will make some calls and see where everything goes from here.

[flecom]

You should know they do inspections.

haha... oh wait, you serious?

I know an install (legal) that hasn't had an inspection in like 15 (?) years after the last EO dude died in a car crash

[MLS]

Sorry for posting in the wrong forum. Can a mod please move this to the Lounge. Thanks

[dsli_jon]

Hey MLS -

As we know an investment like this really changes the perspective of your competitors.

First of all, kudos to you for even *trying*. So-many today just say 'it', and don't even try. Hats off to-you for at least trying and working to keep this industry 'elevated' out of the total ash-pit...

Put in a call to Woody...

Myeah, but he's pretty-busy these days, and, quite-frankly, not sure we wanna pile more in his lap, right now...

I'd suggest going 'straight to the top', Robert Doyle, Chief of the Branch, 301.796.5863, robertj DOT doyle AT fda DOT hhs DOT gov... And the best time to call him is between 4:30 am and 6am, EST (no joke...) prolly, 5-5:30, EST would be ideal, as IIRC, he gets in at 4:30a... He's current top dog, afaik, in the enforcement-realm, right now, and he'll at least take your call (or call you back if he's not in...) and discuss your concerns.

Plan your call in-advance, make an 'agenda' - short, bulleted list, facts-only, no 'emotion' or 'hype' - he's a busy man, but will listen to your concerns and put someone on it... it might even be Woody, but it will carry more weight coming from 'The Boss'... He will also know who-next in line would be best to enlist.

Honestly, unless these guys are using lasers to enrich uranium or planning to take down 30 airliners, (and you can prove it.. it's not likely anything will happen, enforcement-wise, immediately... CDRH is still spread pretty-thin... *BUT* you never-know - there just-might be a new inspector / enforcement-officer they're looking to have 'cut their teeth' on, and this might fit the bill... All you can do is try... But, imo, that is certainly better / more noble than doing nothing...

I grew up when...You can probably guess what my take on all of this is.

Point well-made, but one's 'take' tends to change when one begins using this industry to put food on the table...

Hope this helps...
j

[JohnYayas]

Point well-made, but one's 'take' tends to change when one begins using this industry to put food on the table... :-)

You're preaching to a software engineer who has seen his industry decimated by a little thing called outsourcing. But, software engineers don't have variances to hide behind... but somehow, I manage to make a living. If you can't survive simply by doing a better job than the rest and charging an acceptable rate, then you are in the wrong industry. That's reality and it is unpleasnt.

[PhantomRage]

I am very new to this forum. From my stand point. I can't see making a living out of doing laser shows, unless you are doing really big gigs. (it was the same when I was into live sound reinforcement, Gem, pryamid, etc made amps cheap so every one got one etc.)

I don't want to see stuff like this ruin it by having big brother come down and take away any chance of playing with lasers, because of a raver kid gets a eye ball blown out.

No matter what, electronics are getting cheaper, and we are going to get our ass kicked by outsourcing. From the you tube videos the shows suck, and repeat the same pre programmed i-trust stuff. Time to hit up the venue owners, sit down show them the fines and what it will cost if they get busted allowing kids to play with lasers. Come up with some new kick ass projector tricks, and market yourself. You got the gear now, so any cash coming in is better then non at all.

Just my ideals. But ya. If we don't police our self I feel we risk loosing this hobby or at least it will be a underground hobby at best.

[absolom7691]

Honestly, unless these guys are using lasers to enrich uranium or planning to take down 30 airliners, (and you can prove it.. it's not likely anything will happen, enforcement-wise, immediately... CDRH is still spread pretty-thin... *BUT* you never-know - there just-might be a new inspector / enforcement-officer they're looking to have 'cut their teeth' on, and this might fit the bill... All you can do is try... But, imo, that is certainly better / more noble than doing nothing...

It would be nice if ILDA members could function as "deputies" to help inspect said shows/venues. That is, if they wanted to dedicate the time. Of course, we can't take a gander into every backyard party that is using lasers, but I am talking about established companies that advertise and set up shows for moderate sized clients. PLURfect productions is another one that comes to mind. "Deputies" inspect the show, take the pics, and file the paperwork. Maybe help alleviate some of the load for CDRH by doing the field work for them. Again, this would take some time and dedication, but this is our hobby we are protecting and for some of you, our living.

[planters]

Exactly! And well said. After the audience the people with the most to loose are the club owners. Sure go ahead and inform the authorities, but if your serious about pursuing these show opportunities present a real and safer alternative. Scare them if you have to and present the risks then fill the gap. Regarding preteens with M-80s that's just stupid.

[dsli_jon]

You're preaching to a software engineer who has seen his industry decimated by a little thing called outsourcing. But, software engineers don't have variances to hide behind... but somehow, I manage to make a living.

Huh. So, you wouldn't rather-that the work was NOT outsourced to 'cheaper' (and often, inferior, at-least when it comes to *good* tech-support, etc) programming-houses overseas? Likewise, the laser show industry would be more than happy if all 'competition' was, indeed, a 'worthy opponent', where people didn't use 'scalp or be-scalped' tactics like undercutting / operating illegally / insuranceless, etc and then, delivering inferior work, thereby 'staining' the entire industrys' rep with a 'ho-hum' reaction, the next-time 'lasers' come up...

I think we're griping about pretty-much the same net-thing, yes? (...except the 'hiding behind variances' comment - Do you think Pro Co's try to 'charge more' just-cause they have a Variance?? If so, uh, no...)

If you can't survive simply by doing a better job than the rest and charging an acceptable rate, then you are in the wrong industry.

And how do you get a potential Client to *realize* that, pre-booking, if all they see are the numbers, and what may look like 'impressive results' from your competition, but in-reality, may just be someone elses' kiped images? And it's extremely-difficult for a legit Co., with all it's inherent costs / insurance, etc, to legitimately-compete against a 'Company', that is in-reality, an individual or two with little to no overhead, and little to no 'investment' in quality or legal / safe gear, and still be able to 'gain ground' after all show production / logistics-costs...

So, how would you overcome the 'challenge' of, in-fact, being 'better' than much of your competition, but not wanting-to / being able-to work for break-even - or less - nor 'cut-corners' on quality / safety / legality, etc, to 'prove it', simply because some 'hack' offers something (apparently, but in-reality, not) equal?

j