Senior Member
I don't know how I would do it and that is why I am not in the laser show industry (at least not seriously).
But, how does any 'performer' book a gig? How does any lawn care company get clients? How does anyone get a job? Experience, references, word of mouth, etc, etc. The cream of the crop rises and the crap gets flushed. You're making a pretty good go of it from what I gather so you know the drill. Are you really threatened by hacks doing rave parties?
Senior Member
How old are you?Originally Posted by planters
Senior Member
I think your mixing apples and oranges. The copied, lifted software is a copyright issue and not a realistic approach to the authorities or for that matter the managers of the venues. But safety is and that's your lever. This isn't that complex. If your competition is preforming unsafe shows and you have proof present this to the guy paying the insurance bill. That will go along way.
Gary I think it is a bit different with the laser show industry as not everyone has seen a laser show but every one has a lawn that needs "care", most everyone has used a software application, and gone to a resturant. The average Joe can easily tell the difference betwen a hack job and a quality application, and Muffy and Buffy can easily see how well El Gringo Landsscaping can trim their bushes compared to Slacker's Mowing... A club owner just sees lazer beams and so does his clientelle; it is harder to show them, on paper, before the event, what a real laser show experience is when all they have seen is said owner of the "chinese rave setup". It is much harder to convince them to pay more for a legit Lasershow Producer with compliant equipment over the crap they have seen and paid crap for; if there is an accident, the whole laser industry in that local area could get a bad rep which will hurt the legit producers even more than just being undercut pricewise. Most people know what resturant to go to to have a good steak and where not to go, but they probably have no clue about what club to go to to see a good safe laser show; not that many people are picking clubs just to see laser shows at. This is a niche market and could be damaged much more by a couple of dumbasses.
And I played with M-80s and bigger as a pre-teen.Yes it was probably stupid... but it was fun.
Needs moar photons
ya but a lot of club/party organizers just look at the $$$
if I say a show is $1500 and douche chinaman says he can do it for $100 with his winky blinky chinese crap, guess whos getting the gig?
Then it is your responsibility to show the club owner the risks and report the show if it is not legal. You have more of a chance getting that gig working with the system than you do working outside of it; I know you ain't going to do it for $100 and I know you have compliant equipment. If "producer" winky blinky causes and accident the chances of anyone getting the next gig go down.
Senior Member
Allthat,
I think you touched on something there. Good safe laser shows are difficult to find. If you take cheap chinese crap and display it safely, it is going to look like cheap chinese crap, however, audience scanning always seems to WOW people. It is easy to make cheap chinese crap look good when you shine 200mW into the audience and thus, the safe and good shows lose out. I also think some people are turned off when they hear "safe". Safety always seems to cramp the fun in people's mind. Paintball vs. Nerf darts, "What do you mean, the speed on these whosey-whatsits are lowered for safety?" "Do not hold in hand"..... I can see how the illegal shows get in there. Money and hassle free (provided no one gets hurt).....
If you're the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room.
el gringo loco
In *theory*, but the frustration comes because, markedly, in the laser-show industry, it is not just as simple as 'if you build it (and do it 'right') they will come'... Offering a better-quality show, even at competitive rates, does not always ensure you can snag the gig from someone offering it at 1/10 of what it should-be offered-at... and then delivering crap. Why? Because it's easier to 'impress' a potential Client with a 'false-storefront' in this biz - ie: DJ Whatshisclown's website made it look like he had a dozen years in the biz, and scores of satisfied Clients - when in reality, he's not even remotely-capable of delivering *truly* good value - much akin to what I am sure you see with the 'outsources'...
I don't mind losing a gig to a 'worthy opponent', someone who I know will a) do the show legally / safely (so there is not a direct risk-increase for more complications for the industry due to some 'incident' from carelessness / ignorance - different from a true 'accident'...) and b) will 'uphold' fair / decent pricing for the industry (what is fair for both Client and a Company, doing-biz within it (insured, legal, quality-gear / people, etc) not drag it down to the level of what is 'fair' for *one guy* doing it out of his Mom's living room...
No, since I / we gave-up on the rave / dance-party / club-scene years-ago, when the flood of chinze-box-toting hacks started to appear - now?? Ptththth, forget it! But, to your 'larger' point, yes, since hack-work threatens to make things complicated for the whole industry. Legally, financially, reputationally, etc. And, too, when the raver-guy decides to make the 'crossover' to the Corp. scene, and undercuts a Co. that really *will* do a great-job for the Client - just so he can 'bag' the job - and then proceeds to do a horrible job, and, in the end, could care-less, like some serial-rapist...'er and on to the next one...
Anyhoo, I gotta jet... I think we're (almost) on the same page, yes?
j
....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...
Senior Member
I don't see it any different than illegal mexican workers or imported chinese products. They exist because there is a demand for it. If people could pay the same for an American worker or for an America product they would, but they can't. The flood gates have been opened and you have to adapt or drown. Swimming upstream is not an option. You all can report these illegal projectors and illegal shows all you want but because of the number of them you will most likely just cause more rules to be made to the point where everything becomes legal or everything becomes ignored. Regardless, there will still be people doing very cheap shows and you will have to compete against them and the reason is because rules are useless when people see cheap $ and don't care if they are caught.
el gringo loco
OK, so, it's 4;50am, here, and I'm about to unplug for the night (??) lol... so, I guess I'll volley one last time...
Respect the point, but in this case, we could also 'spin' it - there is a demand, because foreign manuf's have incited the 'clone-wars' - dirt-cheap shineola-boxes, quality and legality / safety-concerns be-damned...
Quantity vs quality, greatest plague of the 21st century...
I could not agree with you more on this point. Except only that I submit people should not be deridden because they choose (or encourage others) to 'adapt', via seeking the 'high-ground'... granted, you may not 'net' as much, but (in theory) you should feel better at the end of the day. This assumes you at-least attempt to maintain some sort of personal-pride / conscience.
Heh, You have exquisitely defined the entire laser show industry. That's all it ever is / has-been.
Myeah, prolly not. I think the only-known case of 'Gov-lockdown' was the moratorium on outdoor shows in Vegas (Laser Notice 46, iirc..) and that - like the restrictions on shooting 20W Argon beams off a mirror-ball into BOC-fans' eyes - was prolly a 'good idea', at the time. All any 'bell ringers' hope to accomplish is at least raise *awareness* of 'how not to do it'... If the Gov steps-in and starts clamping down on the *really* stupid sh) well, that's certainly-not a 'blanket-ban' on all lasers, pro or hobby, etc... I doub't we'll ever-see a 'blanket moratorium' on all laser shows / projectors, etc. If we ever-did, that'd be the Day for American Revolution II!
Anyhoo, I've gotta s l e e p, but nice debating with ya...
cya
j
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