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Thread: Laser Buddy

  1. #1
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    Default Laser Buddy

    So after seeing all these post and suggestion i started working on a mobile application that will run on iOS (iPhone, iPad), Android, Win Phone 7, Palm OS and some others (Bada, etc. )if we really need it... i will at a point submit the app to the app stores, like apple, android market place and so on, since i have already developer account with these guys.

    The Application will be native so you have access to contacts, locations and other features that your phone provides.

    So far i wanted to add...

    Calculations:
    Divergence
    Irradiance
    MPE
    etc...
    Venue Database
    Combine measurements taken and MPE values and save them in a Database for later use, or just to archive them.
    Links
    Latest Post from PL
    something like "engadget does"
    Credits

    I would be happy if people could contribute to this (ideas, ideas, ideas) so we can grow it over time... so please any ideas you have let me know and we could incorporate it into version 1 or 2 and so on... I have setup a mantis bug tracker so if problems arise we can log it and fix it... I would really love this to be a community tool.

  2. #2
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    Default Defense of the dark arts class.

    Ok, with all due respect to my good buddy McC, I'm a bit worried about this project. This is to protect you and PL, Hivelaser. while I have long argued that software should be freely available for calculating audience scanning, there is a issue about doing it right. Read what I am attaching, and you'll see why a simple set of equations does not cover MPE well, its just a approximation. I don't like a app that does not explain what its doing, when it comes down to eye safety.

    Attached is a little gem for your enjoyment. Let the debate begin. Welcome to peer review.

    Not all of the calculation is attached, I'm weary of doing that, there is one more page to the math for a sawtooth. Note, the NEEDED exposure table is not attached. I can't legally attach it, its a expensive ANSI standard, and they get POed when you do that, and claim copyright. This is wrong, it needs to be public domain, and once was. (I think)

    Note you need more measurements then beam diameter and power for a effect in the US.

    Steve
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ANALYTICaudSCAN.jpg  

    ANALYTICaudSCAN1.jpg  

    ANALYTICaudSCAN2 001.jpg  

    ANALYTICaudSCAN3.jpg  

    ANALYTICaudSCAN4.jpg  

    Last edited by mixedgas; 08-04-2011 at 04:58.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Thank you for attaching this, MPE should be just one part of the app, i want other laser calculations in it too. And not only calculations, anything that can be usful in a show environment... I also been working with the android ADK to attach the thermophile heads and get a laser meter right in your phone

    Please check this link http://safety.uchicago.edu/pp/laser/mpe_nhz.shtml
    and the attached pdf http://safety.uchicago.edu/files/Las...lculations.pdf

    I mean there are things like NHZ (nominal hazard zones), MPE, then you have the difference of CW lasers against pulsed lasers and so on and all these calculations are approximations. Without the right gear to measure it it will never be dot on... I just want to provide something to get people started to think about safety, i do want to add the calculation (equations) and explain what they are actually doing here. We defiantly need to add that the app takes no responsibility for mishandling and so on...

    Please let me know what you concerns are?

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=hivelaser;201388]Thank you for attaching this, MPE should be just one part of the app, i want other laser calculations in it too. And not only calculations, anything that can be usful in a show environment... I also been working with the android ADK to attach the thermophile heads and get a laser meter right in your phone


    I'll get back to you in a day or two.

    Main concern is people using the software as a crutch, and making assumptions about their laser over time, instead of doing quality control and making the actual needed measurements. DPSS green changes beam parameters like crazy.

    Liability for you, "click to accept this agreement" may not be enough when eyes are at stake.

    Other concerns coming soon. Address them well and you may find a copy of the whole document in the mail.

    You need a heck of a lot more then a slow thermal meter to do aud scanning right. This is one of the things that worries me, the quality of the pulse measurements.

    Steve

  5. #5
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    Making a quick plug and play "Equation Solver" is not a help for most users and can be a step backwards for the industry. Making a program that asks certain step by step questions can actually teach a user as they go along would be BIG help. Little things like the difference between milliseconds and microseconds and how the software handles that, can make a big difference in safety when applied. I'm remembering a certain laser safety expert telling me about how even professionals did not understand powers of 10 when solving simple MPE equations.

    You can make your code teach laser safety and it will make it easier to use, or you can make a confusing quick solver, which would you prefer?

    Hint from Education theory, exams and tests don't measure much, but they do teach. If questions pop up during each step, it reduces confusion.

    Steve

  6. #6
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    See, I take the other view, and think that anything that makes the smaller operator, (who normally wouldn't/couldn't do the required calcs due to knowledge and/or investment) and was about to set up a crowd scanning show, stop and think 'Oh, hang on, this app says what I'm about to do is potentially dangerous' is a GOOD thing...

    I know a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous, but on the basis that people who have no knowledge are being far more dangerous, I would think that anything that helps people to do even rough evaluations is better than no evaluation at all.

    Given that MPE is based on a small chance anyway (50% chance of a beam 10x the power causing an injury or is that the other way round...? Someone correct that please I don't have the opportunity to look it up right now) I would think that even being in the ballpark is a GOOD thing.

    At the end of the day, you require some basic measurements anyway (power, beam diameter and divergence) so this won't work unless you do that anyway. Where beam profiles are not consistent you would simply measure on a worst case scenario (e.g. smallest diameter and lowest divergence axis)
    Frikkin Lasers
    http://www.frikkinlasers.co.uk

    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  7. #7
    mixedgas's Avatar
    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
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    [QUOTE=norty303;201417]See, I take the other view, and think that anything that makes the smaller operator, (who normally wouldn't/couldn't do the required calcs due to knowledge and/or investment) and was about to set up a crowd scanning show, stop and think 'Oh, hang on, this app says what I'm about to do is potentially dangerous' is a GOOD thing...

    Norty,
    No arguments here, just weary of incorrect assumptions.
    I think we may be on the same page.

    I just think there is more to life then a simplified power/diam/diverge "one liner" equation.

    Other things that scare me, software that changes how scanning is done on the fly, ie possibly Beyond, possibly LSX, that have variable scan optimization during runtime. Ie its no longer a simple D2A converter dumping a pre-calculated waveform any more. That is not Hivelaser's issue.

    I'm up to my eyeballs in dealing with lawyers, two car insurance companies, a university registrars office, getting hired,, as well as a leaky valve on a waterline right now, or I'd start on this. Paperwork and women will by my personal demise.

    Don't get me wrong, I WANT the software out there. He may have the rest of that book plus the look up table priority mailed to him very quickly. I'll try to make sure he has sine/triangle, sawtooth, triangle, 2D sinusoids, and steady state beams. I'm thinking about including mirror ball, but the math on the mirror ball equations needs tested.

    2D scanning looks a bit troublesome, but I'm reminding my self a single phone these days can have more computing power then the entire Apollo mission.

    Actually a phone call between me and him may speed it up immensely. I'm just asking for things like a easy way to input timing and some pop up red flags and good definitions. The community should help him on this one.

    PM me Hivelaser.



    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 08-04-2011 at 12:13.

  8. #8
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    Default

    PM sent... That's why i post here so as a community we can make it together

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