U.S. Customs & Border Protection ....Seized my laser.... HELP!!

[gottaluvlasers]

Unfortunately, the assumption that all chinese stuff is crap is *ALMOST* true. I have seen and have first hand experience with both using and selling chinese equipment and the failure rates are ASTRONOMICAL compared to almost zero of other parts of the world.

Just a very quick *NOT EXACT, BUT VERY CLOSE* "numbers" comparison of scanners. Since this is what we seem to be talking about mostly.

Over the past 6 years (almost 7 now) I have purchased for my *own use* 7 pairs of Cambridge scanners and 2 pairs of Eye MAgic scanners. I have sold approximately 10-15 sets of Cambridge scanners and probably about 5 sets of Eye magic scanners. These scanners are being used in systems ranging from ~1W to >30W. And to this day, i have not had so much as a phone call on performance, defective set, dying set or "sub par" set of scanners. EVERY SINGLE SET of scanners sold are still working as perfect as the day they were sold. Actually, ironically the only set that seemed to have an issue was a set I had and it was my own fault why one of the scanners died (aluminum shavings).

Now, i also own 3 sets of "Chinese" scanners. 2 are replacements (after about a yr and a half) of an older set. and 1 set is about 7 months old and so far, so good. I have also sold approximately 50-60 sets of "Chinese" sets and of those, I have had approximately a 70% failure/defect rate. Of which, the customer had to deal with the non sense of shipping back and warranty repair/replacement to China. Most of the time of which i would just pay myself to put the customer in a new set.

Of these defects and failures 1 of the problems was a SERIOUS safety hazard of which could have been avoided if the "Chinese" didn't exaggerate their specs and claims. Try shooting a "broadband 99% mirror" (which they are not) "Chinese" scanner mirror with 5/6+W of 445. Can we say, "melt?" And still have the scanners here to prove it.

OK, *ALL* Chinese stuff is not crap. of course i agree with that. But the biggest problem with "Chinese" stuff is we all enjoy and are spoiled (myself included) by the cheap price tags. Well, we cant have our cake and eat it too. If CT Scanners are $1500, they DESERVE that price tag. If a "Chinese" scan system is $600, trust me...they DESERVE that price tag (probably much less).

We can not expect "professional" (however you want to define that. im not going to get into a pissing match about that term) results from a beginner/hobbiest level scan system. No matter how you slice or dice it, 95% of Chinese laser equipment does not come remotely close in quality and safety to other parts of the world and their equipment.

If people are interested in exact numbers i would be more than happy to go through sales records for the past 4-5 years and compare warranty, defect and replacements of "chinese brands" compared to that of other manufacturers around the world. I can tell you with 100% confidence that the numbers would astound you.

-Marc

[Anthony]

Marc,

How does this compare to chinese lasers vs eurostuff.
Did you see the same results with chinese lasers?
I did notice you don't sell the same brands as 2 years ago.

[norty303]

Thanks Marc, that's exactly the sort of real world experience I was after. I am very surprised by the reported failure rates, especially in the context of the brands you sold.

[steve-o]

.. LaserGuy 216, did you ever get a response or get your items thru customs yet?

[gottaluvlasers]

I will not single out any Chinese manufacturers and no "one" was or is worse than another. but we need to remember something, we get what we pay for. I have no problem paying (for example) $500-$600 for a pair of scanners to be used in my (mostly used for) nightclub green system. It is a beams mostly system and i can buy 2-3 sets for the price of 1 set of Cambridge. I keep a set on hand with me as a backup set (which has come in handy twice already!) and i understand the possible "risks" when spending less on a particular product. I know and do not expect long term performance and i expect a failure here and there. Its the nature of the business and the nature of "going the cheap route."

Now my big systems and "corporate use" mostly systems are all cambridge or Eye Magic systems and perform flawlessly or have performed flawlessly for years. Most recently (as in 2 days ago!) i had a scanner failure for a build for a member here. this was a "Chinese" set of scanners. This was already after an amp failure which held his build up that i replaced (both the scanner and amp) on my own dime. These were BOTH brand new scanners and amps and failed after my burn in "torture" test. I do these tests EXACTLY the same on ALL of my builds and have had NUMEROUS failures with "Chinese" scanners and never a SINGLE failure with a CT or EM set of scanners. (With the quality control paperwork to prove it).

Lasers? forget about it. Not even a close comparison. Sorry. And i still sell "chinese" Lasers. So im not just "bashing" here. You simply just can not expect to get superb results (there are a few exceptions here and there) compared to an American, European brand Laser system. But this is why a 1W green chinese laser is $1000 (or in that area) and a American or European 1W green is 2X or even 3X the price. Quite simply, you can buy a Kia or you can buy a Lexus. Neither one is "terrible" but you know which one is going to last longer with less problems! If you purchase a "Chinese" Laser, you need to expect to get "Chinese" Laser quality, performance and longevity. If you purchase another, well- you know what to expect. (again, i know there are exceptions and i KNOW someone will jump in here to start a pissing contest. But i am simply speaking on first hand experience and on "averages".)

I purchase Chinese and for the most part am perfectly happy. Yes, there are MANY more failures and MUCH more replacing of these components, but i expect it becasue i know wha I am getting into when i go this route. Of all the KVANT lasers i own and have sold, i am on a less than 1% failure/defect rate. in fact, the only defective KVANT i can think of was a 20W/445. oh, lol- and frank of course with his weird ass red! Actually, thats not a defect. its just misaligned. LOL. but he's just cursed!!!

Laser hobby/profession is no different than ANY other hobby or profession. You get what you pay for. Dont buy amateur and expect pro results. don't complain for amateur pricing when looking at pro products. There is a market and need for both. but the markets and needs *ARE* different for a reason!!

-Marc

[fixorater]

Agreed @steve-o I ordered a 5mW 405nm pointer from DealExtreme a while back, just to play with florescence. US customs seized it even though it wasn't above the 5mW limit, claiming it was actually a 20mW laser, not sure if they actually tested it or were just guessing it was illegal?

[dsli_jon]

hey m8...

Hey Jon (you get every text formatting option going today...)s

Heh, hey - I really-do try NOT to be 'Italian' (...that is to-say, typing as expressively as I talk...) but... I fail...

Probably got the painters in currently, you should see the size of my ankles and swollen belly.

Huh? Sorry, help - I need an 'English lesson'...

So, are they quite good, but not quite good enough for professional shows, or just adequately good to be considered safe in a professional show?

Really, as has been pointed-out, it has little to-do with what is 'good enough' for 'Pros vs hobby' use - imo, it all comes down to *liability* - for the hobbiest, personal liability, in-that, if/when you choose to 'cross the line' and take your home-built rig out of the living-room to a public setting (ie: church / wedding-gig, etc) - even if 'innocent' - where does the finger get pointed IF, say, a cheap-galvo mirror falls-off or locks-up, mid-scan, and sends a beam into someones' eye? Or, as you're switching that 'DMX-driven ChiBox' to power-off, it sends a 3W beam into someones face? Yes, I know - those are 'far-fetched' possibilities - but, they *can* happen - and DO.

..Now, extrapolate that liability to a 'Pro' - you've got personal-liability, as an operator / owner, and business-liability, for the Co. - You've got much more at 'stake', if something ever goes wrong / someone actually gets hurt... And, of lesser-importance, but, perhaps even holding 'graver consequences' for the Co., is 'financial liability' - Not so much the remote-chance you'll get your banana sued-off - but think of the very real chance that, if your galvos / laser / system, etc *fail* you, at the critical-moment of, ie: a CEO-entrance, or band-entrance, or car-reveal, logo-spin... - ad infinutum... Trust-me - having 5,000 people *waiting* for your show to 'recuperate' / start WILL-translate into financial, and reputational-loss... Why risk that to save a few $$?

Again, it all comes-down to 'Price vs Cost' - knowhatimean? Like Marc / Dan said, no one is *saying* "ALL China-stuff is crap" / worthless, but, as with just about anything else in life, where 'quality' is important - ie: think of all the food-safety incidents, because someone / some Co. 'cut corners / quality in the name of saving $' - You pay now... or, you pay later... Choose Wisely.

Here's to the day we see improvements in 'value' WITH hi-quality, maintained... I'm sure we can agree on that, yes?

cheers, and I hope yer ankles get better soon...
j

[norty303]

Huh? Sorry, help - I need an 'English lesson'...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...d%20decorators

Off to work now, probably a response later....