I'm still ranting or, at least confused...

[Bradfo69]

Boy the waters are murky sometimes. Next up on the "I don't understand" list....

I present the manual for the Chauvet Scorpion GBC: http://www.chauvetlighting.com/produ...M_Rev08_WO.pdf for your reading pleasure.

This is a readily available, "buy without a varience", Class 3a projector. 30mW 532 and 40 mW 473. They state it's "classified per 21 CFR 1040.10 and .11." That also say it "complies with US FDA CDRH Laser safety standards 21 CFR 1040.10 and .11" In one area, I see where they claim "fat beam" technology but who knows. Maybe that's how they got the product itself approved or, how it is the public in the US can just buy and use it. Or... did they build it in such a way that it wasn't submitted and approved at all?

Some of the things that don't make sense is they claim on the safety labels that the "power of each beam at aperture is <5mW 473nm and 532nm 300m Sec CW" supposedly *As measured under IEC measurement conditions for classification. (Huh?)

The next thing concerns "interlocked housing". O.k. so, CDRH wants the housing of a projector to have interlocks which would turn off the lasers if a lid or cover is off. I gather that these do not have them and it states in the owners manual,

"Non Interlocked Housing Warning
 This unit contains high power laser devices internally.
 Do not open the laser housing, due to potential exposure to unsafe levels of laser radiation.
 The laser power levels, accessible if the unit is opened, can cause instant blindness, skin
burns, and fires."

So, by putting this in an owners manual, is that an acceptable form of getting around having interlocks installed? I already kind of understand that, if I build the projector and, am the owner and the end user, that interlocks are kind of silly since they'd only be there to protect myself from myself. I think the disclaimer sticker "No user serviceable parts inside." has been debated about being successfully used by some as well.

There is also a bunch of other warnings in the manual regarding safety and it being illegal to point it into an audience. They give the cursory 3 meters above and, 3 meters horizontal separation warning. Yada, yada, yada...

I'm not blasting Chavet. I like their stuff. I OWN a lot of their stuff. I'm just trying to figure out what THEY do to navigate CDRH with new products.

So... Is the way to get around a lot of this stuff simply writing a manual?

What's prompting this is that next up on my "to work on" projects is getting my currently US non legal projectors, legal. I understand I'll need to create a product report in order to do that and thus call myself the "manufacturer". Does writing a good owners manual circumvent some of the things such as interlocks that are supposedly necessary then?

Chauvet has more money that I do.... does that, um, play into these things perhaps??

[allthatwhichis]

If everything is too confusing I will be glad to hold onto all your lasers and related equipment at my house until you fully understand it all...

[Ragdoll]

Brad,

Aaron will take care of them! lol. It is all to confusing. I did a show over the weekend for a club owner who had several twinkle and RGB chinese unites of at least the half watt white range pointing directly into the dance floor. Upon my arrival he began to show off his wonderful set up to me and wanted to know how I had to nerve to charge what I did for a nightclub... OK here we go again. First I told him the basic laws of our great land and he told me that no one cares.. Woody I might be calling you soon..wink. He said he was going to make sure no used me at his venue again since he was more than capable. Needless to say an awesome night of running Beyond(thanks Bill) and Live Pro(still have midi mapping issues in Beyond) blew the crowd away and I walked away with three requests for job bids from other promoters. Hang in there Brad it is worth it once you are there and word gets out you offer legitimate shows at your venue. I bet all your investment will be worth it.

Ciao,
Ragdoll

P.S. see you at SELEM 2012. Im already excited!

[Bradfo69]

If everything is too confusing I will be glad to hold onto all your lasers and related equipment at my house until you fully understand it all...

Back the semi up to the loading dock, huh? Somehow, I believe you would!

[mixedgas]

I think you'll find it has non-standard screws to prevent easy access to internals or another similar trick.

Probably there is considerable documentation not in the user manual, in the initial report. Do you have a copy of the IEC regs?

Your asking good questions that most "Old School" laserists are uncomfortable answering, because they spent time and money to find the answers. So PM me off list and we'll talk. I'd publish my old application but I can't. This is a conspiracy on my part, my former partner would rather not see some some of the effects techniques posted on the web. This not old news, I've admitted that for years.

But why not just put in the "Olde Classic" required two lid microswitches, a simple shutter solenoid,a keyswitch, a remote interlock connector, a simple emission indicator, some proper labels and call it a day? Patch up any light leaks in the cooling vents so you don't exceed say 100 microwatts per Cm^2 of stray light.

Have you ever just considered calling the agency and finding out what they are asking for these days?

Reread the Chauvet manual, something you need is plain as day.


Steve

[flecom]

I think when it comes down to it, nobody "knows"

same way nobody knows if they can honestly say "I have never violated *any* section or regulation of the IRX tax code" its just impossible

[dsli_jon]

So... Is the way to get around a lot of this stuff simply writing a manual?
...more money that I do.... does that, um, play into these things perhaps??

No, sir - Again, some 'homework' for ya - we can discuss, more in-detail, after you've read it / hand-in yer 'book report'..

http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/De.../ucm094361.htm

ttys..
j

[Bradfo69]

@ Obi wan... Ugh... more homework. An interesting read though! I really need to sit down and take some "line by line" time with this stuff. It's hard doing it in snippets.

@Steve... thanks. Funny you should suggest just calling them. As they're less than 90 minutes away, I've thought very seriously about doing exactly that. Speaking with a human versus hours of poring through government issued documents would be a preferable way to go! (I'll also re-read the manual and see if I can figure out your reference! If it's plain as day, it might just actually jump out at my feeble brain after a bit!)