Could the janitor orwhoever has mods rights explain why SpaceJay was clubbed

[flecom]

no I don't hate anyone, just didn't follow this conversation properly apparently

[norty303]

"You Lad!! Wake up at the back!!"

*bangs cane on table*

[Solarfire]

Excuse me; is this the Jerry Springer thread? I must have taken a wrong turn back there somewhere... and where the hell is Oprah???
I'm just having a really, really hard time believing that this thread is about “adults“and supposedly intelligent? (looks at his kids and thinks.. “Thank god that you’re all normal!”) Jesus Crist people grow up and get a life. Is this a Laser forum or a “My mommy didn’t cuddle enough with me so I have to be a dick forum”?

Ok, ok I’m calm again… guusfraabaaaaa! Amazing!

[norty303]

Mr Solarfire, I think it would be good to go and read the 'datacentre' thread before jumping in with too many comments/conclusions. Whilst not the cause of the issues, it does give a certain level of better insight into what has come to pass.

[Solarfire]

Sorry norty, but I read enough here already. Like I said I took a wrong turn back there somewhere.
Ahh.. Where’s the door out?

Cheers!

[ShortyInCanada]

HEY !
Stop bangin' that cane.
I'm trying to catch up on some sleep back here...
Go on. Keep yaking it up out there !

[Admin]

being that this site has always appeared to be a democracy , whats happened
doesnt look right !

before i lose a bit of resepct for my favourite corner of the internet
id like to hear if more has went on to cause this ?

The banning had very little to do with the spat between them in that thread by PJ and my response may look swift and without reason; for that I apologize - A while ago he showed up to the IRC channel and started asking some very personal questions about people. If the people involved want to bring forth specifics, they can do that but by all means I don't expect them to.

You don't open up conversations that way, it's just creepy, really really creepy... That set off some alarm bells in my head. Fast forward to the other day - I had talked to a number of people here and on other boards and the information provided was nothing short of ultra-creepy. Once again: I respect the privacy of the people that talked to me about this so I will not bring up details.

The other thread was merely a vector and does not paint the whole picture - hell, the information I have doesn't paint much of the picture but what I have seen is more than adequate for me to be completely confident that my decision to ban was both proper and correct.

I am sorry if my decision here has made you lose respect for "your favorite corner of the internet" and it may not be much of a consolation prize but this decision was not reached quickly or easily - a lot of input preceded it.

democracy is a fine thing but the Admin has a final say and if he thinks it's correct, then it's correct, end of story

Well, I don't think that way - I defer to expertise of others as frequently as the situation allows and while the end effect is functionally identical to "Dictator Did X" - I like to think that coming to a conclusion cleanly is important to the process.

Spacejay is a psychopath and a nasty little troll who likes to abuse people for his own amusement. I won't go into details but he started sending some very disturbing stuff in PM, so I asked for him to be dealt with; after he got cluebyfoured, he started trolling IRC. After enough of that, he got banned from there too.

Not everyone on the internet is a good person.

This is an accurate fluff-free summary.

is the IRC officially part of PL? if not I don't see what one has to do with the other

Yea, pretty much. I set up an IRC channel for addicts who think that the time between when they post and when they get a reply is simply too long. I tend to think of IRC as a freeform conversation based in the ancient language of yourmomdickjoke that proudly flies under the banner of freerange clusterfuck.

All joking aside - It's pretty active and it's just another style of communication that suplments/augments the forum. This has its own set of problems but is ultimately a non-issue.

I keep drawing the conclusion to some of the weirder people that "graced" the halls of alt.lasers over the years and can't seem to come up with a better analogy - so it stands.

I was around in IRC when he showed up, and from what I saw, I'm glad he's gone. He's a creepy abusive fuck.

This is another summary I would consider accurate.

See rule 3.0.0 and 8.1.0, psst Spec need not justify anything he does imo.

Linked text to PL.COE: http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...Code-of-Ethics

While you are correct that I don't *have* to justify anything - I still like having as much information as possible so I make the best decision I can and I am aware that for any action taken I run the risk of pissing people off, I don't like it - but thats the "game" in a nutshell. I just hope that my past actions are indicative of me not flying off the handle and/or making brash retarded decisions based solely on personal bias.

Example: I hate zombies and their fetishistic single track drive to consume all the brains in the universe *but* if one came here that could speak and was able to keep his hands of peoples brains - I'd hear him out.

now im not no internet specialist however if you go to the rules in chat...they are clearly as follows:

1 - Don't be retarded.
2 - See 1.

Seems to be pretty reasonable request to me...Spec determined to club, he must have had a good reason...done...

Thanks man.

Same thing happened over at another laser related forum too.

If I was on the fence before I spoke to some of them I certainly wasn't after.

I had a very similar experience a couple weeks ago. It wasn't from heroic, but by one of the other regulars. I guess it's ok to be an ass on PLCHAT so long as you're one of the regulars....

I used to structure the IRC channel the exact same way I do here - Zero administrative/moderator staff and upheld the same style of dealing with issues as they crop up - but It's IRC, there is no captcha for spammers there and if someone comes in talking some seriously crazy shit and I am not around to remove them then I feel that I am doing a disservice to the people that hang out there. I have a placed a few of OP's there and between all of them it means that at least one clue-by-four is available for immediate deployment. I monitor kick/ban usage and I have yet to disagree with a single action taken. I hope this trend continues.

In another thread He/She talks about their jobs being maintaining servers ? and how someone comes in
cobntact with that server regular ... so im guessing thats a veiled clue that HEROIC runs the PL server

SO in summary , based on the limited info i have , new additional lines require to be added

8.1.1 > Heroic can say and do what she wants as she controls the PLUG
8.1.2 > Heroic is untouchable
8.1.3 > Heroic - dont argue with he/she - you will lose

Heroic has zero administrative capacity over PL or the underlying hardware and doesn't have access to any proverbial kill-switch. Regardless of the person involved - I feel that if someone was able to exercise that kind of control over here then it would certainly complicate things and make decisions far muddier. If ever faced with that then I would start to do whatever I could to get PL back to a clean "state".

Please note that the irony of the previous statement is not lost on me because I exercise the exact same control that I would try to correct for.

The rules you have proposed are fundamentally inaccurate.

I have on a number of occasions disagreed with heroic and find her to be abrasive but I don't decide to dismiss or discount anything *anyone* says because I don't like their tone. That is tantamount to saying "Because I said so" - and thats a horrible justification for any action.

Don't kill the messenger, even if the messenger calls your mother a whore. Take the message and consider the merit, not the presentation.

There can only be one z.

Paul, that's kinda what I figured. Yet since one person is a 'regular' and the other isn't, guess who gets the axe...

I can recall two times when new people came in after some weirdo was kicked - In those instances it could feel like you are walking into a minefield. Couple that with the fact that "the regulars" tend to know and get along with each other and you have the same clique problem that exists here on the board proper.

I have yet to find a solution that works to remedy either problem.

I dont know either party involved in this other than reading their posts , i smelled an injustice , politics , abuse
of power , corruption, mafia style leadership , bullying ...........

And you are certainly welcome to your opinion even if I don't share it - to be perfectly honest I find that those that decide to not speak their mind because of some perceived external politics a greater problem that needs to be dealt with. Everyone should be able to speak their mind and air their concerns - Where I draw the line is with corrupt logic. IE: You don't like me because of some bias or precept and decide to personally attack me to "prove" your point.

Heya just a little addup to this:

Well I dont want to argue with her at all.. but when someone says negative things and starts to shift my whole topic to something else, I will respond and will feel offended.
And certainly Someone has to change the tone they speak to people, behave preoperly and keep the language decent when your actually talking to somebody about a serious subject.

Please see my previous comment about "tone".

Maybe a "special" category for the intense and potentially abusive threads needs to be created that only the "janitor" can move them into.

I find reading them to be informative and educational.
Sometimes I see things that I might be guilty of thinking and realize that those things are not acceptable. So they help me self regulate and assess my own being.

I used to have a private toxic waste dump where I would lock arguing users until consensus was reached, but that had it's own set of issues and solved absolutely nothing. I now believe that any arguments held in the open are better or at least will be rendered clearer because it will be able to involve many different people and their ways of thinking. At it's core I believe the following statement to be true with regards to disagreements, heated or not: "Sunlight is the best disinfectant."

Mr Solarfire, I think it would be good to go and read the 'datacentre' thread before jumping in with too many comments/conclusions. Whilst not the cause of the issues, it does give a certain level of better insight into what has come to pass.

While I am not aware of any "datacentre thread" - I have summarized that you were referencing the recently-appeared-out-of-nowhere belief that Heroic controls PL. I hope that my commentary above will lay that to rest or at least help explain why things "run" the way they do here.

Excuse me; is this the Jerry Springer thread? I must have taken a wrong turn back there somewhere... and where the hell is Oprah???

Close - It's a vehicle for communication where people who have very strong and sometimes well founded beliefs are able to argue without a "divine hand" coming down to nuke conversations because said hand "Doesn't like what you are implying mister!". This often appears to look like an absentee landlord is driving. All of which lends itself to heated, sometimes very heated, discussions taking place. Between that and the alternative of a place where one viewpoint is held to a different set of standards, vocalized by a hive mind, and subsequently enforced from up high... I'll take the chaos, every time.

Hell, some of the brain dead fanboyism here really gets under my skin for many reasons, a few of which I have touched on here in various forms, but that doesn't mean I should shut down any dissent because it goes against the vocal hive-mind. Conversely, and perhaps more importantly it doesn't mean I should promote said behavior, from either side, either.

Heres how I look at things - I try to find fundamental root for any given causality and make my stand there and try to make this board "a better place" - A better place doesn't mean that everyone agrees with each other and gets a circlejerk going around a campfire while singing 80's showtunes... It means a vibrant and dynamic community where people can voice their opinions, however amiable or abrasive, without interference or collusion.

The "core" I see here is as follows: This issue is complicated and goes lot deeper than people saying mean things and a lot of people are upset over it. Bullshit has been building up for decades and PL is the pot. This is so because PL doesn't cater to specific corporate interests and is not guided by any one viewpoint. This leads to extremely heated discussions that, at worst, are removed/destroyed elsewhere. There is merit buried in these arguments and I would be doing a disservice to everyone by drinking the kool-aid that got us here in the first place. This is a philosophical stance I have taken. If there is a better way to go about it - let me know.

TL;DR - BRAINS.

[norty303]

While I am not aware of any "datacentre thread" - I have summarized that you were referencing the recently-appeared-out-of-nowhere belief that Heroic controls PL. I hope that my commentary above will lay that to rest or at least help explain why things "run" the way they do here.

Nope, it was in reference to PJ's 'QM in Datacentre' thread that appeared to have some spillings over from this topic and the IRC

[Lasermad]

@ spec/admin/janitor WOW
Any wobbling respect i had for this place ( and its administration ) has faded and been replaced with Extra Extra Kudos with Kudos on top.

I should never have doubted my gut feeling , from the outside looking in , the banning "appeared" swift , and unjust as both parties were active in abuse , but clearly AS ALWAYS , the silent janitor is ALWAYS beavering away in the background

Thanks for taking the time to explain your thoughts

Kudos Boss

Paul

[masterpj]

Guys all come down.
First of all leave me out of this whole fight.
About heroic is that her tone might be harsh often, but her information given is "often" with good means, also having a disagreement means theres something to learn, At least sometimes.

There might be a misunderstanding as if I seemed to think I know everything, which I clearly am aware of that I don't (hence why I'm trying hard to learn more and more and I'm glad I'm able to do so).

About spec is that he really is the janitor and is really judging from a neutral perspective, I won't question his discisions.

I don't like seeing a drama on PL, in fact PL wasn't created for bitching.

Also csshih (aka graig??) I didn't know u were 19 man! I heard you play minecraft too! (sure is an addictive game right?)

Anyway just because I am a curious bastard I skipped through the log, found loads of rubbish.
There was one thing that confused me, csshih you were saying my intentions are not good?
I'm not mad at you or hate you all off a sudden for saying that, in fact it might not have been aimed towards me.
If it was, could I have a little explanation at least?

Other then that I'm done with this drama and want to enjoy PL like I normally do (which I'm going to do after i sleep a bit and wake up right away).

Best regards,

Pieter