Correct me if I'm wrong...

[MountainGoat]

Once again I am extremely grateful to the people on PL.

A couple quick comments from my iPhone again:

1) regarding if/ whether to notify the FAA, I agree with you. My perspective is safety, and a hobby beam is just as potentially dangerous as a commercial beam. The physics are the same, and our communal concern should be for everyone's safety first. This is my belief driving my actions.

2) on my draft form I am specifying a pretty broad area of direction, but I have also indicated next to the data that I am open to limitations and changes as requested.

Maybe that is part of the beauty of being a hobbyist? Not that "I can do whatever I want and don't need to worry about safety", but rather that I can be entirely flexible since I don't have to worry about show times or aiming the beam in a specific direction due to where the audience is located.

Basically I'll outline what my projector is, the hazard it represents, and ideally how I'd like to use it; then look to the FAA to explain their concerns and we can hopefully agree on a way that I can enjoy my hobby without causing them any problems or major inconvenience.

I should be able to work on the form some more tonight and may post it (sans any personally identifiable information) for others to see IF you think that would be appropriate. Perhaps you guys with experience could comment on it (not looking for an thorough review and validating math, just any suggestions you might have) and it could serve as a reference to others who want to follow this path.

I'll check out that resource link you provided for sure.

Oh, and FYI, I am in Portland, Oregon.

Megawatts of thanks to you guys!

[MountainGoat]

Just wanted to clarify my previous comment in case it is misinterpreted: when I said I didn't have to worry about show times and where I direct the laser, what I mean is that I can be flexible and adhere to whatever is agreed upon with the FAA (timing of laser, direction we agree on.) I am not constrained by things like "the stage is here and the audience is here, therefore the only thing that will work for me is to direct the laser in a specific direction.)

I didn't want anyone to misinterpret my comment to mean I thought I could shoot the laser wherever and whenever I wanted.

[mixedgas]

My bet is they ask you for a VRA number....
If that is the case, good luck arguing that you do not need one.

Steve

[MountainGoat]

VRA number = FDA variance I assume?

You may be right, but for one thing I intend to build for and obtain a variance. Same idea as filing with the FAA. A high power beam is a potential hazard regardless of whether it is emitted from a commercial or hobby projector. The FDA requirements are reasonable safety measures so why not implement them?

My other thought is that there will always be some uninformed people are that are difficult to deal with. Hopfully the people that normally deal with processing these forms will be educated enough. As I recall, the form specifically provides the option to enter "N/A", so the FAA apparently has some concept that a variance is not always required.

As I said, I don't feel my hobby takes precedence over air traffic and intend to be very collaborative and flexible. That said, hopefully they embrace the collaborative approach since this is an opportunity to demonstrate to other hobbyists that the FAA can be worked with to mutual benefit. It is not really in anyone's best interest to appear unreasonable and unaccommodating.

I'll certainly share my experience once I go down this road...

[mixedgas]

Usually no one in the business quotes their FAA rep in public. It tends to have adverse consequences for a mid level official who has quite a few more duties then laser safety. Think about it. Ever see any federal employee other then the designated spokesman or a high level official speak in public? (Aside from law enforcement)

The person you deal with acts within a narrow set of rules. They generally are not policy makers nor are they authorized to speak for the agency.. Don't place them on the spot.
At least ask their permission before quoting them.

Scientific Research and DOD users were exempt in some ways from filing for lasers in airspace. Hence your "NA".

Generally you want the variance. Take a look at U.S.C. TITLE 18, CHAPTER 2.
Sec. 39A.

Quote "Any Device designed by the operator as a pointer or to highlighter to indicate, mark or Identify"

That phrase "Any Device" makes that legal definition wide open. It is what the lawyer would call "broadly and intentionally vague". It is not "handheld" specific. File for your variance, that way you would have some "pending approval" documentation to show to law enforcement, etc.


Steve

[MountainGoat]

I got a little lost about "quoting an FAA rep in public." Maybe I wrote something that was misinterpreted?

Anyway, the variance is on my radar. I was hoping I could do the FAA forms first, but I don't think I'm too far from being ready to file for a variance. If it is best to do the variance first, I can certainly go that route.

[LaserCo]

Ok so i'm trying to put together an informitive video about lasers and the legal stuff for youtube.

[ clipped ]
Thanks!

Can you share this video please Gabe, Thanks!

[MountainGoat]

FYI, I built a spreadsheet to do all the FAA form 7410 calculations and would like to share it for others to use (hopfully making it easier for others to take the high road and work with the FAA.) However, before publishing it I am working with another PL member to test it against some commercial software to ensure its accuracy. The last thing I would want to do is to steer people the wrong way.
One nice thing (IMHO) about this spreadsheet is that it produces calculations for each wavelength as well as the combined beam output, and also provides results with and without the Visual Correction Factor (VCF) applied.
I am hoping this works out and might become a handy tool, even if you simply want to understand the potential hazard of a given projector.
As soon as I get some feedback on the accuracy from this experienced PL member, and assuming he feels it is appropriate to share, I'll post the tool for others to use. It'll be my first little contribution to the community.
Big kudos to my helper for being willing to test this for me too!

[dsli_jon]

FYI, I built a spreadsheet to do all the FAA form 7410 calculations ...assuming he feels it is appropriate to share, I'll post the tool for others to use. It'll be my first little contribution to the community. ..

..Two Thumbs Way Up, Mr. MG.. Great job, Thanks!.. I'm sure this will prove tp be a great resource for those who don't want / need-to spend the bux on 'Skyzan' or other Pro-software... Your PL Kudo-account is growing rapidly..

..If this ends up being decided fit-to-post, please be sure to 'feed the Wiki'.. So-few PL'ers realize we have such a great 'all in one' resource, right here in the Homeland.. I think a great place to post would be the ever-growing 'Helpful Tips' section: http://www.photonlexicon.com/wiki/in...in_Progress.29 ..and of course the FAA-page, also http://www.photonlexicon.com/wiki/index.php?title=FAA

..If ya need any help with the 'edits', Ping our Admin, 'Spec', PL's Sovereign Janitor of all-things-HTML / Most Holy Master of The Sacred Clü x 4 / Omnipotent Nuker of Tools, Fools and Spamerrorists.... He'll gladly helpii if you ascii..

..And, Thanks again for helping 'pave the High Road'...
j

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