Topic for Discussion / Micro-Poll...

[Solarfire]

1.) Create the possibility to donate any amount at any time.
2.) Create the possibility to subscribe with any given amount monthly, annually or whatever.
3.) Create greater visibility to the positions 1 and 2. Hell when I became a member here I didn’t know shit about subscription or donation for about 6 months until I accidentally stumbled across it? Where was that again?
4.) Create a PL area extra for company’s where they can spam their little hearts out for hard cash of course.
5.) Some selected advertisement may not be so bad; it may even be profitable in terms of knowledge for PL members to sourcing (good) laser related components (optical components for example). No I do not have a company that’s trying to pave the way there and I’m not fond of advertisement.
6.) PL is a goldmine of knowledge and the vast majority of the active community here is very outgoing and helpful to all that come here. I believe that I’ve pretty much passed thru all laser related forums on the web and it wasn’t hard to tell that PL is superior to all else that I’ve passed thru. To me the bottom line is, if the question was PL with advertisement or no PL without advertisement, the answer is actually very simple.
7.) I have no problem with anyone who can’t afford to donate; even gaining a new member is more or less a donation to the community, especially if these bring new knowledge and ideas to the forum.
8.) Last but not least, I’m sure there are some better situated info sucking leaches out there who could and should be contributing to this community but just don’t because there to tight. Loosen up Scrooge you’ll live a longer better life.

Yeah.. It’s not refined, just some thoughts to throw in the pot.

Cheers!

[dsli_jon]

Hey Fränk -

well I don't either but I donated...when the shit hit the fan...I never heard anything from him at all which I thought was kind of lame

I'm not going to 'defend' that other than to say, typically, when the hits the fan, you are usually too-busy ducking turdballs to think of much-else... Still, you've certainly got a right to hear from him... I'd've just sent him a PM and said '..uh, hey, did ya *get* that, ok???' ...You know - that 'communication-thang'...

anyway, I realize he provides us the platform but what does it cost to host...whats invaluable here is all the information contained within..

...this viewpoint, however, ignores the value of his time to untangle the knots, mop up cyberpuke, nail 'spamerrorists' to the wall, clüe x 4 the deserving, and generally, ensure - longterm - that all that 'invaluable information' is *still here*.

..I'd like to see how little his time / help was-valued (vs 'someone just covering hosting costs'), if he, say, got hospitalized for even a week, and PL went-down on his way to the ED... How many 'PLicides' would we hear of, right?

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Hey Nort...

I think this is being over complicated. Bring back one off donations....if you want to introduce change, it creates work for the admin, both now and in the future when it goes wrong.

Fail, because the 'one off button only'-philosphy is not working, good-enough, in the 'big-picture' - He said he took it down cause '..it went, untouched, for 7-8 mo's' (..and I'm sure this was 'apart' from those that have monthly 'automatic drips' or make yearly big-chunk donations...) - Can we 'petition to bring it back' / campaign to make people aware of it? Sure! Cheers to Doc for doing-so.. but, imo, that's just a 'band-aid, not a cure'.

RE: 'Over-complicated'.. fair-enough... You forgot 'over-punctuated' ..I was just trying to put some structural-thought into 'how it would all work', as fuel for the cooking.. So, how's this:

My Simple Proposal: If every Active Member (atm, 657..) paid only $12. stinking bux for an *entire year* of those 'meat and potatoes sections' of PL = Problem Solved. And... long-term..., since now there's a 'foundation-set' for ongoing-support...

Even if 1/2 of them left, it would *still* be better than what happens, currently, because: A) Constant-fluctuation - sometimes severe - by leaving it up to an at-whim 'Donate' button-only. B) Not everyone does donate, even-when made-aware of 'the button'.

Of course, peeps that wanna do more, always-can, but Payed basic-membership guarantees that 'base' that's - imo - fair for all, including Admin / his time / effort.

$12 bucks a year. I just really don't understand why this is too much to propose-asking, from everyone, as a guaranteed support-base for PL. The Info, itself, is still 'Free' - remember, I'm not proposing 'site-wide' Members-Only access.

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Hey Bri..

just ask Robert to identify "supporting member" on each post etc.

Good thoughts, all, but again, this 'honor-system' / people being 'blue vs not' is not working, good-enough, overall...

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Hey CMB -

...but wouldn't that involve a hell of a lot of extra work for our dear Admin?

Sure! But 657 Active Users x $12./Yr, minus hosting / any hard-maintenance-costs, etc = an Admin that is then *well-paid*, for all those hours he'd spend *administrating* - vs now - where, he still spends many hours, *administrating*, and aside from hosting-costs being covered, it's a 'sometimes, almost-maybe he'll be able to get some fast-food', in-exchange for all that he provides...

$12. / yr, at a min. = a Happy, thriving PL, long-term, imho..

Should it be *less*? ..IS $12. 'too much'?? Well, if we could get ALL the 4,920 Currently-Registered Members, to say, pay only $1. a year?? Even THAT would be better than it is, now ...all 'up n down n who-knows when / if', etc...

IMO, the most essential thing is that PL is free, and it should stay that way. All content.

..And that Info would *stay* free, as each of us contribute it - I'm not the Admin, by any means, and even-I feel confident in saying, as long as Admin has-control of it, it's guaranteed, you'll *never* hear '..please Deposit 25¢ to hear mixgases' answer..' I am simply proposing a member-base-wide, *guaranteed* minimal-amount financial-support of PL / its' Admin, that's all..

(Also how the hell can you still put such an enormous bunch of lay-out in a post from an iPhone?)

.. I was back on the Mac for that-one...
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All: Further 'how it would work' / rules -Thoughts on the 'Advertisers Corrall' / Forum? Admin is adamantly-opposed to 'banner ads', even from 'innocuous entities' like Edmunds, etc.. Sooo... BRAINS!!!

ciao
j

[blowfly]

The 1200 anonymous users kinda scare me, but I think ads are the way to go. This forum was founded on free information with everyone being equal. I donate because I think it's the right thing to do, it shouldn't be mandatory. From what I know of Spec and his ideals, there is little chance that he would allow himself to get it a conflict of interest because of an advertiser.

[polishedball]

I would be fine with the "$12. / yr, at a min. = a Happy, thriving PL, long-term, imho.."

I sadly can't handle monthly contribution budget is that tight where to just buy something new mean selling something to get the cash, but would be OK with a yearly thing under $25

Let alone the information here; Some other Food for thought.
Think about it we drop more than that to attend LEMs and would do about anything to go to them, without PL how would they even be organized and kept track of. What about finding that needed part, do you really want to pay ebay prices for the goods you need or would you rather hit up your favorite suppliers drug dealers right here?

Also I am fine with banner ads etc, heck the mbit chat puts all that stuff up top and never bothers me.

[Stuka]

I didn't miss that part, I read it with the rest but didn't see any sarcasm in it. If that was your intent, then I apologize, it is sometimes difficult to read someones intent in such a low bandwidth medium. Regardless, the anti-pangolin rhetoric around PL lately is a big turn off......

Ditto!!

The original anti-pangolin comment DEFINITELY raised the "WTF" flag!!!!!!

[Stuka]

I would be fine with the "$12. / yr, at a min. = a Happy, thriving PL, long-term, imho.."

...

Let alone the information here; Some other Food for thought.
Think about it we drop more than that to attend LEMs and would do about anything to go to them, without PL how would they even be organized and kept track of. What about finding that needed part, do you really want to pay ebay prices for the goods you need or would you rather hit up your favorite suppliers drug dealers right here?

Also I am fine with banner ads etc, heck the mbit chat puts all that stuff up top and never bothers me.

Agreed -

The information shared here is probably worth EVERY PENNY that a typical user might spend on donations.
I find it hard to belive that anyone seriously involved in this as a hobby or business would have a problem spending a few dollars to keep the site going, when they would readily drop $$$ for lasers, parts, etc.!

And for those posters that seem to think the idea of "making money" off the site might be the underlying reason for donations (monthly, yearly, whatever), I doubt that would be any part of Admin's intent - I gather from past events that just maintaining the site, especially as the user base grows, costs considerable time and money to keep going. What most folks here are getting for FREE, Admin is paying for out of his pocket...

[polishedball]

I'd go even one step further and say I could care less if the Admin makes a couple bucks, he started it, was here first so be it. Others make lots off this site so why shouldn't he. I am also the same guy the usually pays for nothing and goes away when people charge esp on the internet, but in this case of using and enjoying I would have no problem with a reasonable fee.

RE: pangolin my 2 cents they cause most there silly problems because they can (QS no ilda export, no SDK), there stuff has the best user interface, but the attempted or perceived monopoly strategical or not, always makes the big guy get picked on. Thinking QS with the vdj might work for a need i have right now, playing with the demo.

[dsli_jon]

Alright, now I've *really* gone and done-it... ..See 'Poll' up-top.. and - spread the word - Let's get some serious Voter-Turnout, People!!!

Please not that this 'Poll' is *NO Substitute* for good ideas / healthy-discussion, being posted!! Also, please let me know if I've 'forgotten anything' / options, up-top...

Thanks, Photonians!
j

PS - IF - IF, somehow, this 'idea' passes Congress, here, and we all, collectively decide it's a good idea to 'convert PL', as-proposed, I will create a second Poll, so we can all discuss / propose which Forums would be 'All-Access', open to the whole world, (ie: Lounge, Safety Info, News, etc..) -vs- 'Paid-Members-Only Access', cool?

[flecom]

=...this viewpoint, however, ignores the value of his time to untangle the knots, mop up cyberpuke, nail 'spamerrorists' to the wall, clüe x 4 the deserving, and generally, ensure - longterm - that all that 'invaluable information' is *still here*.

sorry but that is his decision... I am a member on a much larger message board and the main admin/owner rarely shows up because they have a great team of volunteer administrators/moderators... I should know I'm one of them

spec has chosen to leave it a closed administration and thats fine, but having to deal with it is the consequences... I am not being ungrateful, I just don't feel bad for him

on the other forum (the one I am a mod) right at this moment there are:

Currently Active Users: 4485 (781 members and 3704 guests)
Threads: 923,800, Posts: 12,314,290, Members: 155,269

so ya, I know what its like to play forum cop

[Displaser]

Jon,

I make monthly contribution based on my belief that there is content on the forum worth paying for, as well as I appreciate the efforts made by Spec and the lack of banner ads being placed throughout the forum. I am also fortunate to be able to assist on a monthly basis, and so I do.

I'd like to keep the "open atmosphere" here and not force members to pay. It would be nice to prompt folks for donations however and bring back a donate option. Why not establish a monthly goal and show the progress towards this each month? It would be nice to understand when the lean months are happening....

Maybe some other options? I'd buy a PL shirt in support of the forum, as I'm sure others would as well.