Topic for Discussion / Micro-Poll...

[planters]

Well Well Well...Jon, you must have gotten one hell of a PM because this topic SEEMED to have sparked a mixed bag of opinions, pro and con, but little animosity. It's good to hear that financial pressures shouldn't interfere with the status quo; if that's true. You must have worn out at least one keyboard with the effort so thanks anyway.

[megaton]

Tanto pedo para cagar aguado.





Cheers and happy holidays.
Ed
PS Effects by Aaron....

[dsli_jon]

It's good to hear that financial pressures shouldn't interfere with the status quo; if that's true.

I was being sarcastic. No, I'm sure PL will somehow always 'get-by', but that wasn't really the 'goal' of my rally... Anyhoo, it will run it's course, and I'm sure the Admin will chime in with his own-feelings / decisions / proposals, when he is ready to do-so...

Thanks to all the 'non-pissed-off' that participated / gave ideas / input...

Tanto pedo para cagar aguado.

jajaja... si, pero ciertos cagados ni vale verg...

ciao
j

[allthatwhichis]

Why don't we implement several ideas all at once, observe the results and decide where to go from there?

Put some banner ads up, maybe start with ads from Corp members donating $100 a month, or companies willing to donate 10% of the sales off that "clicked" link...

Make an option, check box or something, for subscribed members to view or not to view the ads, in case they need to buy something...

And add the donate button back with a limit set that will set the donating member up as a subscriber for n number of days based on the donation amount.

I am sure we can add or subtract things as new ideas are thought of and value is assessed, but it sounds like this should be moved on quickly.

[dsli_jon]

Hey Mang.. Thanks for chimin' in...

Why don't we implement several ideas all at once, observe the results and decide where to go from there?

That's what I was sayin' to Herr Janitor, just last nite..but his concern is, in part, that anytime he makes a 'big' decision, that, invariably, people get ticked-off and start throwing fits / boycotting, etc, and he just would rather take the 'measure twice, (or, maybe thrice.. cut once' approach on this one... Ultimately, all of this is his call...

Put some banner ads up, maybe start with ads from Corp members donating $100 a month, or companies willing to donate 10% of the sales...Make an option, check box or something, for subscribed members to view or not to view the ads,

Interesting ideas, but, again, to relate some pro/con thoughts on 'vested-interest advertisers' (ie: members..) - what happens if a well-paying member starts to fail the community / members, ie: slow-service, poor-communication, quality-issues, or out-right failure - what then? Does he take down their ad? Is he seen as 'not taking action' / condoning the offender, if he does not get involved / Clux4 someone? What if it get's *really* bad, like some of the stuff we've seen happen in the past? Judging from the amount of 'uproar' / drama seen here, recently, for him just administering a couple of well-deserved 'spankings' / time-outs for a mere week, you can understand why he's reticent to get money-involved...

..It would seem wiser to allow only 'non-vested' / non-member advertisers (ie: 'exterior Co's', like a Thorlabs / Newport / Edmunds Optics, McMaster Carr, etc) to participate...but, then we're back to his inherent-loathe of ads, period, so... But I do like your idea for 'subscribers' to 'opt-out' of being subjected to them..

And add the donate button back with a limit set that will set the donating member up as a subscriber for n number of days based on the donation amount.

Gr8 idea... I'd also opin that there should be several 'levels', ie: one-time $5. / $10. / $20. / $50. etc.. and then 'subscriptions', with either a monthly or yearly 'buy-in', and with various 'levels'... But, what, other than 'senior-member-love of PL' would 'incentivize' people - especially newer ones - to support PL at all?... If it's not working well-enough, now, how will it, then, even-with 'lower-levels'? Of course, now it's pretty 'broken' / not many 'flexible' or even very 'visible-options', so that needs a wrench, asap, in any case.. ..We've brought-up 'PL Merch', etc, but that can only likely go 'so far' - ie: How's a 'corp-level' subscriber, say, at $120. / yr, for example, gonna feel about getting *another* 'retardo t-shirt' in year-2? These are things to 'extrapolate'...

I am sure we can add or subtract things as new ideas are thought of and value is assessed, but it sounds like this should be moved on quickly.

I think no matter what, one of the most 'important' ideas yet-suggested, is the idea of the ever-present "Supportometer" so everyone knows where PL-stands, etc.. This just *might* be helpful, for people to see when PL is close / into the 'red', without coming-across as 'beggerly'... .. This is all a 'tough math-problem', for sure...

..I dunno, I still-feel like the most 'sure' way to build a 'baseline', is the 'Mostly Free; Pay *some* (a little, or a lot, as you wish..) to Get More / All'... but..
that idea seems to be a 'turd in the punchbowl' so... ???

Anyhoo, Thanks for your input, Bro... Keep it comin... ..and I mean that in the most non-browbeatingest-way possible...
ciao..
j

[dsli_jon]

hey y'all -

OK, so, #1 - Thanks to everyone that inputted / opinned / voted - it seems like we have a fairly clear 'majority', as-to support for the concept of finding a 'win-win-win' way (..how, still tbd..) to groom PL toward a better-sustained funding-model, -vs- those that just couldn't give a snot... - seems like most are indeed, interested in finding a way to 'better' things..

Basically, what seems like has 'risen to the top', more than anything, is the idea that there should-be multi-levels of more-obvious 'Click Here to Donate' options (..ranging from, say, a 'One-off $5.', up-thru the ranges to '$100. / mo.' for those that wish...) with the variability of either a 'one-time chunk', or, 'recurring subscriptions', BOTH options allowing a 'user-defined amount' - so all options are available for those that wish one OR the other...or perhaps, both (ie: a $12. / yr susbcription, + a 'one-time chunk', when able / interested, etc..)

..Additionally, it would seem mission-critical for these 'at-will options' (vs the seemingly-unpopular idea of 'Pay-For-More' sectioning-up of PL, to more-surely help maintain a 'stable / fair minimum-base'...) to have an 'ever-present Supportometer', ie: http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...7&d=1322358595 etc, so everyone knows / sees where things stand...

Lastly, how to fairly - for all-sides - 'deal' with 'corporate entities', here in PL - by 'corporate entities', I am meaning ANYONE - individual or actually a 'corporation', llc, dba, etc, etc - that SELLS STUFF / SERVICES, PROMOTES STUFF FOR SALE, and/or has a 'commercial-link' / URL in their Sig-line... of course, those that link to 'info-only sites / photo-blogs', etc are not-such - This also would not apply to ref's to someone selling a 'one-off' something on eBay, for example - unless it's a Webstore...

...but the main idea is ALL-SUCH ENTITIES, REGARDLESS of what / how-much they might-do FOR PL'ers, OUTSIDE of actual, direct PL financial-support - ie: Co's that offer discounts to PLers / support LEMs with giveaways / free-upgrades, etc etc – get put on an 'equal-plane', when it comes to direct PL financial-support - from Stateside-co's / individuals, to European co's / individuals, to Asian co's / individuals, to Martian co's / individuals... - everyone of these are equal / on the same 'expectation-level'.. and thus, we would likely avoid any more 'molotov cocktail-chucking sessions', like we recently experienced over suggestions that ALL-SUCH Co's might consider this specific-type of ongoing-support...

Now, if an individual 'corp. entity' or a Big Co, wishes to give more - fine - nothing is ever 'coerced / forced / browbeat / guilt-tripped' etc - it's just a flat-out, equal-plane *requirement*, and it would likely become 'known' in the community, when / if / how a particular Co / person was going 'above and beyond' that minimum-requirement, and they'd, in-turn, likely reap benefits from that 'extra-effort', thru good-will / more-sales / etc, etc, etc...

One final-time, I will re-voice the Opin that if we had a 'Free for Most' (of the info / sections, see Post #91), 'Pay for More' / deeper-sections, etc, we'd a) cut-down on the increasing-floods that simply join to skank free-stuff / files / ask for help, etc then scram, b) discourage the 'Spammerrorists'...at least in some of the more 'meatier' threads, where they'd have to pay to be-able to post; c) *might* help to improve the 'SNR', here - cause if people have-now *paid* to-be posting in certain-sections, they're more likely to contribute some 'real meat' into the posts, vs just silly jokes, etc.. ..Uh, Ooops..

..and d) - Like I opinned at the outset - if, lets' say, 1/2 of the (currently) 691 'active members' were at least $12. / yr ($1./mo.) subscribers, + the 'corp. entities' that would (proposedly) be giving at least $5./10. - or more, a month, as-able, that should-be a pretty-good 'model' for supporting PL, long-term - Sure, that number will 'wax / wane', but - imagine if ALL of those 600+ members subscribed at at least the $1./ mo-level - would we even *be* discussing how to improve PL's support-longevity / how does it's Admin pssibly afford co-location / upgrades, etc, etc? I doubt it... TBD, I guess...

Anyhoo, I know I've waaay overspoken my whys / wherefores, etc, and since I was flat-out told I 'pissed a lot of people off / offended a bunch', with my 'heretical suggestions of improvement', here - what a dog I am - - I'm gonna finish by saying, once again, THANK YOU to all for your participation / ideas / comments / pros-cons, etc, and hand the mic over to the Cap'n...

..Cap'n?

ciao
j