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Thread: Selling section for the non-hobbyists among us

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by White-Light View Post
    The problem is spam from big commercial companies such as the rep David the other day who posted an advert in 7 different sections of the board.

    There's also the argument that big companies making lots of money should pay for the privilege of advertising on here.
    1) The spammers aren't going to take the time to see if there is an appropriate "non-hobbyist" section and then post there.
    2) Big companies who make a lot of money do not make a lot of money because they post here. Name one company that benefits from posting here more than members benefit from seeing posts from those companies. Yea, I know it costs Spec money to run this place but the people using the bandwidth and giving nothing back are not the companies who make a lot of money. The only company who posts regularly on here or has groupees how do and who sees tangible benefits from it is Pangolin and I doubt they really even get a decent percentage of sales from users on here. On the other hand, every chance you get you will jump in a thread, related to Pangolin or not, and recommend that someone should by Pangolin. You're probably one of the biggest spammers.

  2. #22
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    Regardless, IMHO it's rude to post sales threads as a commercial entity without contributing either:

    A. Financially for the upkeep of this forum
    B. Knowledge for the betterment of the community

    Even if there's not much profit or volume of sales from PL, that's not in it's own right an argument not to contribute. That's just plain cheeky, in my opinion.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnYayas View Post
    1) On the other hand, every chance you get you will jump in a thread, related to Pangolin or not, and recommend that someone should by Pangolin. You're probably one of the biggest spammers.
    There's a difference between providing a recommendation / opinion to someone who requests help in choosing software and someone who comes to the boards as a rep for a large company purely to post a pure buy me sales pitch.

    Similarly there's a difference between a company posting a one off informational post telling you of their latest software products launch or update as opposed to one which is here's our products ring for a deal, repeated 7 times across threads within the board. there's a fine line between information and promotion but its there.

    Also, if there's a better alternative to Pangolin, I'd gladly recommend that but there isn't for most people as it's arguably the most rounded software available, which is why the majority buy it.

    However, I do remember recommending Spaghetti and LSX in the not so distant past to one or two users looking for lower cost solutions.

  4. #24
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    So, because you feel Pangolin is better you have to say so in every thread about laser show software? Even in this thread you posted this: "Also, if there's a better alternative to Pangolin, I'd gladly recommend that but there isn't for most people as it's arguably the most rounded software available, which is why the majority buy it." Do you think you are any better than someone who posts 7 ad repeats and leaves and never comes back? Even if it were diodes or mounts or anything that wasn't laser show software I would still think that you need to STFU. Damn dude. Why do you want to piss me off before I even have time to finish my morning coffeee.. Grrrr.

    Now, my beef isn't with you or Pangolin. It's with with the ridiculous notion that spammers would go to a SPAM thread to post their messages. That makes as much sense as everyone having a seperate email account for junk mail that they never look at and then making a law that advertisers could only send email to those junk mail folders. Of course, that would leave you, who would go ahead and still send email to my regular email accounts with things like "Hey, I know you are thinking about laser show software... did I mention within the last 2 minutes that Pangolin is the most awesome and if it were a cream I would beat off with it? It's really that good. " Jeez.

  5. #25
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    ..I know this is 'not my conversation', but...

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnYayas View Post
    It's with with the ridiculous notion that spammers would go to a SPAM thread to post their messages.
    This is why we appreciate having a rather tenacious 'Janitor'.. Remember that recent 'spamerrorist'? Where is he, now?? Vaporized. So, yes - you make a fair point, Gar, but.. there will always be the 'influx of the clueless', and, again - that's why we're glad we have a Janitor with a Nuke-tipped Mop.
    I think the 'purpose' of the 'Commercial Sellers' section-proposal, is for ALL those - from DIY-Boy to Pangoligula, et al, that wish to be regular promoters / sellers, also-be 'contributing'-members - in some notable way - if they're not going to, intellectually / informationally, then, by-golly, they should-be, at *least* financially, or.. GT...

    Bottom-line, as has been said, it's up to Admin to 'decide what will-be best', but he reports that he's 'reticent', because he seems to get a lot of 'flack' over *any* proposed-changes.. heck, look how it nearly caused rioting / 'walkouts' for the poor-guy, by suggesting a 'global, minimal-$$ subscription-model' for PL, so IF / when he decides to 'leave' being the Admin, there is an established-way for it to be-offered in the same way one posts a job-offer ("X-Roles / Responsabilities", for "X-Compensation" from "X # of existing consistent User-base", etc, etc)

    I agree with the premise of your point, but, in-practice, I think most long-time members / new 'responsible' members, would willingly 'fall in line' with such a structure - if someone wants to have a commercial-link / URL allowed in their Sig-line - OR - not, but, 'behave-like like a commercial-entity', ie: where they're consistently offering their wares for-sale (ie: Joost / Verkoop, etc..) and yet offer / bring little-more to the community... well, they'd need to 'pay' for it, or GT... ..And, those that are genuine 'spamerrorists', and start spam-bombing peoples info-threads, etc, etc, are usually quickly targeted for 'cleansing' / destruction..

    ..Yes, there might be 'exceptions' - those that, while-advertising some wares here - w/O any 'url' / link in their Sig - are also healthy content / knowledgebase-contributors, such-that no one 'feels' like they're 'taking advantage' of the community...

    Anyhoo, this record is skipping again.. so, I'll shut up now... njoy yer coffee..
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  6. #26
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    Don't mind me. I was being grumpy. And, I apologize to White-Light.

  7. #27
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    Bottom-line, as has been said, it's up to Admin to 'decide what will-be best', but he reports that he's 'reticent', because he seems to get a lot of 'flack' over *any* proposed-changes.. heck, look how it nearly caused rioting / 'walkouts' for the poor-guy, by suggesting a 'global, minimal-$$ subscription-model' for PL, so IF / when he decides to 'leave' being the Admin, there is an established-way for it to be-offered in the same way one posts a job-offer ("X-Roles / Responsabilities", for "X-Compensation" from "X # of existing consistent User-base", etc, etc)
    From how I recall it, I don't remember spec actually being involved. It was your suggestions/poll. And I think thats where the 'issues' were for people. In this case, his silence hasn't helped.

    I think all we're looking for is something from Spec himself, to say what needs to be done, how he intends it to happen, and then get on with it. He writes very well on the occassions he has to, and alwasy makes everything nice and straightforward. There's been a number of calls for some steer on some issues, it would be good to get some response, or opinion, or even a 'just get on with it kids!'

    On this issue, I think you hit the nail on the head (I was going to make it earlier, honest...) in that the use of the words 'hobbyist' and 'professional' are not appropriate terms here.

    The distinction is between active contributing members, and those who spot the forum as a marketing opportunity, and use it solely as such.

    We fixed this elsewhere, by making the 'sale' forum only appears once a person has enough posts on the main part of the forum to demonstrate 'participation'. They then get the 'privilege' of being able to trade as an active member. Otherwise, they simply only see the 'spamming sellers' forum, and all the regular members know what thats about. Set up some sort of payment/donation requirement on that section if desired...
    Simply appointing a mod or 2 with rights to manage users would mean that anyone spamming wrong sections, or posting threads of rubbish to get post count up can be dealt with easily and simply, and without troubling spec
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    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnYayas View Post
    So, because you feel Pangolin is better you have to say so in every thread about laser show software?
    If someone asks an opinion as to what to buy then I'm not going to tell them to buy what isn't the best if its within their budget and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either.

    If someone wants the best and can afford a Ferrari you don't recommend a Tata, not if you're a nice person anyway.

    If they can only afford a Tata then fair enough that's what you recommend.

    I think anyone on a forum where people ask for advice has a duty to tell them what is in most people's opinions the best software out there. If they then want an alternative because of specific requirements or budget, then so be it, that's the time to recommend other options.

    As for that being spam, replying to an asked question for an opinion on software, is very different to posting unsolicited messages that Pangolin is great for the sake of doing so. No where on here do you see threads started by me simply worshipping the greatness of Pangolin, only pro-Pangolin replies to specific requests for info. You do see threads on here from Chinese companies saying simply buy our lasers rather than telling of new developments or other things of interest to the community. That's the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnYayas View Post
    Don't mind me. I was being grumpy. And, I apologize to White-Light.
    I missed this 2nd page when composing the reply. Anyway, apology accepted and no offence taken.

  9. #29
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    Did you just compare LSX and Spaghetti to a Tata?

  10. #30
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    I believe I compared a Ferrari to a Tata as an extreme example, you little stirrer!

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