How DJs and Clubs can elevate their status and make more money

[planters]

If this contest was sponsored by Pangolin and led to this video and then Pangolin proceeded to post this as an add then they are responsible for it. And that's bad. A $600 program that runs $10,000+ hardware is very misleading. Just buy this new golf ball and you'll be on the pro tour before you know it. The audience scanning and the hardware, training and math that goes with it is even more misleading in suggesting what the purchaser of this program will be able to do with it. International or not the DJ is from L.A. and U.S. rules apply.

[JohnYayas]

spoofed? how about validated.

that guy has a big budget, but i can't find him on google. of course "DJ Prime" is pretty generic.

Well, the reason I say spoofed is because a couple days earlier I was talking to this guy at work about Spaghetti and he told me that I needed to add some testimonials to my website like "I never got laid until I started using Spaghetti". We both had a laugh over it. And then when I saw the video of the guy saying that he didnt have much DJ business until he started using Quickshow I just about fell out of my chair. The idea behind the video actually does make sense. But, the production is so cliche to the point where I was actually mocking it two days before I even saw it.

[flecom]

again, they don't sell lasers, just software, so if I use quickshow with a laserscope and blind everyone, that really isnt pangolin's problem...

[djeric68]

I have been a mobile & club dj since 1989 and always had difficulty upselling most customers on lights/lasers in the past when I thought that was the way to go about it. I consider lighting, some laser beams and 2 LCD projectors for videos & txt messaging to be an integral part of what I do. I don't charge extra...it's always included because my show wouldn't be my show without it. I charge higher fees than most in my market, but my customers expect/want the show I provide. My point is that I understand the video is marketing QS to DJs, I just don't think it is realistic for djs to expect to make more $ just because they have beams. It is about selling the benefits of the laser (cool show, high energy, liquid sky) rather than features (I have cool death ray lasers that dj sucks-a-lot doesn't). I am all for Pangolin marketing to DJs, I'm just ranting about my experience trying to sell extras to people who don't realize why they need the extras.

I have been using Spaghetti and really like it and am very happy, but I just sent paypal on ebay for my QS because I wants to elevate my status to sucks-alot-less.

[chad]

I'm just ranting about my experience trying to sell extras to people who don't realize why they need the extras.

That is a euphemism for "Cheap ass - stingy club owners / 'promoters'".

chad

[djeric68]

Chad,

I actually had more private party clients that "just need a dj" when they saw the extra $$$ for lights. Moms, brides & school teachers were the cheapest ones. But yeah, I know some cheap club owners too.

[chad]

Aaah ok, I spent time in clubs and raves.

chad

[White-Light]

If this contest was sponsored by Pangolin and led to this video and then Pangolin proceeded to post this as an add then they are responsible for it. And that's bad. A $600 program that runs $10,000+ hardware is very misleading. Just buy this new golf ball and you'll be on the pro tour before you know it. The audience scanning and the hardware, training and math that goes with it is even more misleading in suggesting what the purchaser of this program will be able to do with it. International or not the DJ is from L.A. and U.S. rules apply.

But equally that same video is used to promote QS worldwide and like it or not, most of the rest of the world is not stuck with restrictive regulations like the US is. You could do the same thing in the UK or Europe with a cheapish laser and just the lenses in a small venue or even without the lenses if you turned the power down or had a larger venue. So technically for the rest of the world, QS and a projector alone are all you need to do some kind of audience scanned show (provided you can do the maths as you say).

It's easy because the DJ is American to assume that this is aimed at the American market but the fact is it isn't. These videos were submitted to a competition for videos to promote QS world wide. Many non US customers would have been less than impressed with overhead beams only as audience scanning is de rigor in Europe. I've actually not gone to events because they didn't have laser or they were overhead only. To me the loss of audience scanning totally spoils my night out. I want to dance in the beams and if I can't do that I'm not interested. Understand, that for the rest of the world, that is the kind of market demand Pangolin are marketing to.

The "DJ is from L.A. and U.S. rules apply" - the US rules were complied with. A variance, PASS and Lenses. Maybe it would have been better if the DJ had said "In order to comply with US regulations....", or if at the end the video had some closing credit text about this, but then again he was making a worldwide promotional video for QS not one specifically for the US and not one for US regulation compliance.

I have been a mobile & club dj since 1989 and always had difficulty upselling most customers on lights/lasers in the past when I thought that was the way to go about it. I consider lighting, some laser beams and 2 LCD projectors for videos & txt messaging to be an integral part of what I do. I don't charge extra...it's always included because my show wouldn't be my show without it. I charge higher fees than most in my market,

Not wanting to be pedantic but isn't that the same? You don't charge extra separately but do charge higher fees because you have lasers and thus provide a better show?

Again I think the point in the video was not that you can charge separately but rather that having QS and lasers allows you to command higher fees (however you structure it) and obviously to somebody looking to invest in lasers, that's an attractive proposition.

[planters]

White-Light,
I agree with you. In fact, European standards seem more reasonable regarding audience scanning. It is the disproportionate emphasis of this Pangolin add that rankles. It is not clear to the viewer/customer that all the difficult, expensive and in the U.S. required steps were taken or even necessary to produce the promotional video. The DJ in the video suggested that prior to QS he wasn't even using lasers. If he had been producing a funky,distracting and unappealing laser display previously and then with QS his shows began to sparkle and his life began to turn around etc, etc... then OK. Do you see what I am getting at? I love the pangolin product and have had a good impression from my interaction with the individuals who work there. This just seems a little misleading.

[JStewart]

Several people have asked my views on DJ Prime’s video, so rather than go through this a dozen times in separate emails, I’m posting a general response here.

Now I’m not going to comment specifically on this video, other than to say that, I think it highly commendable if a run-of-the-mill mobile DJ has invested in laser show technology with patented safety systems and lenses, and applied for a variance after buying a Quick Show. This surely has to be a good thing! In fact, I were him, I would also make a video telling the world how all this technology made it safe for him to expose audience members to laser light, for this, I would think, is more of a unique selling point in his line of work, and could really “elevate his status and make more money” in a territory where audience scanning is uncommon.

That aside, comments about audience scanning shows in general…

The MPE limits are what they are, and anytime a laser effect is created by an X-Y galvanometer system, there are certain physical limitations in what can be achieved; these being the exposure duration and the irradiance (or power density of the laser emission as it strikes a person’s face). The bottom line is that if a scanner system is moving at a certain speed, there will be a corresponding irradiance that must not be exceeded, in order to stay under, or at the MPE. No fancy scan-fail devices, lenses or otherwise can alter the fact that if a beam crosses someone’s eye in x ms/us, there is a maximum irradiance defined in the safety standards that should not be exceeded, in order for a show to remain below the MPE.

How long is a typical exposure from scanning effects? Well this depends upon the type of effect being projected, but a good figure to start with is 1ms. For this can account for many of the sharp finger beam effects that laser projectors are so good at producing. Also, it is probably about the shut down time of the fastest scan-fail devices on the market. Also, if a beam is being expanded to make the irradiance lower, the wider area the beam covers, extends the effective pulse duration; making faster scanning effects expose the eye to longer periods of laser radiation.

So knowing that a sensible starting point for a typical exposure is 1ms, the MPE for this duration is known to be 101W/m^2 (or 10mW/cm^2 for our US friends). Knowing this, whenever you see a video of a laser effect crossing someone’s face, you can do some basic reverse engineering to work out what the power of the laser should be that produced that effect, and be below the MPE.

e.g. if you see a 20mm beam on somebody, you know the maximum irradiance allowed (101W/m^2), so you can figure out (with a couple of twiddles on an iPhone app ☺ ), the maximum beam power that could have been used to produce that effect and be under the MPE. In the case of a 20mm beam, projected over say 3m, this would equate to a beam having an approximate 6mrad divergence, if the source was 3mm. – Something certainly achievable with a lens.

So what of the source power? Well a 1W source would produce an exposure that would be 29 times over the MPE. Considering a lower power source of 500mW, the MPE excess reduces to around 14 times, and going down further to a 100mW / 6mrad beam for 1ms at 3m, the MPE is exceed by a factor of 3.

So if lasers with a power of the 20-30mW were used as the source and sufficiently diverged enough to produce spot sizes of around 20mm, the MPE would not be exceeded.

James.