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Thread: The history of Laser show controllers and software, post your contributions here.

  1. #91
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    Thanks flecom & Eidetic, Some nice historic devices there, do you see production dates on the devices too, maybe on the PCB's

    These photos are exactly what i was thinking about when creating this thread.

  2. #92
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    The point wasn't to "brag" about anything. Steve understood that the point wasn't to brag because Steve's been around long enough to know the long history and understand the relative contribution of each one of these players.

    Indeed, my post did correct dates and add information. Pangolin's Laser Show Designer 256 for the Amiga appeared in 1986, not the date Andy mentioned. And Andy had no mention of LGRASS (the Laser Graphics Symbiosis System) by Aura Technologies which came out around the same time. Laser Fantasy also had an Amiga-based computer system originally called "Rainbow", which I believe was developed after LGRASS. And Andy also didn't have a mention of Laser Media "Level 3" digitizing system which might have been among the first.

    Here we have what is in essence a "history" thread. And I think the history is important to understand because people coming to PL even over the past 10 years won't know these things.

    Nevertheless, I do indeed think it is WORTHWHILE to point out the non-obvious conclusion of this thread -- that there have been many many many companies that have come and gone -- some with really cool products including the most recent presented here (including Sonovision). One company has come and stayed and enabled many to follow due to their completely open nature -- writing articles and books, creating association file formats and putting information into the public domain. This isn't meant to brag -- only to point out the non-obvious conclusion!

    Products and companies come onto the market. New things always catch people's imagination and excitement. But if they go away after a few years then what do customers who've bought their products do? I'd like you all to think about that for a moment. If someone purchased very nearly ANY of the products on Andy's list, what do they do now?

    History is important because those who ignore history (or are not familiar with it) are doomed to repeat it.


    Bill
    Last edited by Pangolin; 08-22-2016 at 01:12.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserist View Post
    But I want to point out that it hasn't been large clients that have advanced lasers as an art, (in fact there hasn't been much advancement that's crossed over in my opinion.)
    Agree. I don't praise any tool I use for any job, I'm doing that job, not the tool. I create my own animations, not use stock boring stuff. Plus we paid for it, we don't have to acknowledge or thank anyobdy for something we have paid good money for. All it would take to get the exact same result with another tool would be a little more work and even that's debatable. As to what would have been if some company wasn't around, that's debatable as well.
    Last edited by Yol8r; 08-22-2016 at 01:41.

  4. #94
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    Hi Bill, do feel free to write me a basic list of your version of the history, " I mean like a list! "

    Product 1 and release date.
    Product 2 and release date.
    Product 3 and release date.
    etc..

    And I will add it to the OP no problem.

    I have no time to read thru your endless miles of text about how the atom was split, how nuclear fusion works or other world famous advancements in science.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
    The point wasn't to "brag" about anything. Steve understood that the point wasn't to brag because Steve's been around long enough to know the long history and understand the relative contribution of each one of these players.

    Indeed, my post did correct dates and add information. Pangolin's Laser Show Designer 256 for the Amiga appeared in 1986, not the date Andy mentioned. And Andy had no mention of LGRASS (the Laser Graphics Symbiosis System) by Aura Technologies which came out around the same time. Laser Fantasy also had an Amiga-based computer system originally called "Rainbow", which I believe was developed after LGRASS. And Andy also didn't have a mention of Laser Media "Level 3" digitizing system which might have been among the first.

    Here we have what is in essence a "history" thread. And I think the history is important to understand because people coming to PL even over the past 10 years won't know these things.

    Nevertheless, I do indeed think it is WORTHWHILE to point out the non-obvious conclusion of this thread -- that there have been many many many companies that have come and gone -- some with really cool products including the most recent presented here (including Sonovision). One company has come and stayed and enabled many to follow due to their completely open nature -- writing articles and books, creating association file formats and putting information into the public domain. This isn't meant to brag -- only to point out the non-obvious conclusion!

    Products and companies come onto the market. New things always catch people's imagination and excitement. But if they go away after a few years then what do customers who've bought their products do? I'd like you all to think about that for a moment. If someone purchased very nearly ANY of the products on Andy's list, what do they do now?

    History is important because those who ignore history (or are not familiar with it) are doomed to repeat it.


    Bill
    I am not discounting anything you have accomplished but I don't nessarily agree with the sentiment of your message. Lot's of innovative companies come and go quickly. And, I can easily think of examples of game changing products that were introduced by companies that didn't stay around very long or didn't produce the product very long. I would also argue that for the consumer it is better to have that sort of innovation and churn than to have a company that takes years to develop vaporware. Sure, it isn't cool when you buy something and a year later that company isn't even around to support the product. That has happened to me many times. But, at the same time, I have bought products from solid companies and then a year later someone else has a better product or I don't even want the product anymore, so who cares? It's like, you created some software for an Amiga and you are still around but how does that help those people who bought the Amiga software. Are they still using it? Do you still support them?

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnYayas View Post
    It's like, you created some software for an Amiga and you are still around but how does that help those people who bought the Amiga software. Are they still using it? Do you still support them?
    HA!! Yes, we're still supporting them!!! Yes it's still in use!!! And why does it matter? Because the same scripts and programs written for our SDK on the Amiga, and same frames can run on our software today!!

    ----------------------------

    There's been something missing from this discussion all along, and that's what I am trying to point out. Andy made an initial post about products -- ultimately leading to a thread about history. But everyone here should be thinking about the PEOPLE, not the products. Ultimately it is PEOPLE who are caught in the middle, when a company goes belly-up, and a product is no longer available.

    Look at New Method Lasers. What the hell are those X29 and Full Auto users going to do now that New Method (and its follow ons) are no longer available?

    I can say the same about products outside of the laser biz as well. Take for example the product called "SWIFT" which *was* a Flash creation and animation product. Pretty cool product really. They were in business for around 10 years then -- nothing. Like men from Mars came and grabbed them up, leaving all of their users high and dry...

    There is also a story about the PEOPLE who created the products, and then went onto something bigger and better.

    Guys, longevity matters because PEOPLE MATTER!!! What happens to the end-users should matter!!

    For the youngsters who have been fortunate enough to never have bought a product that became unavailable or where the company went out of business, good for you, and you can have and express the opinions you're expressing. But mark my words, the bell tolls for you! Check back with me when you're 50 years old and then we'll see if you still agree with the words you've written here!

    Bill

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
    Take for example the product called "SWIFT" which *was* a Flash creation and animation product. Pretty cool product really. They were in business for around 10 years then -- nothing. Like men from Mars came and grabbed them up, leaving all of their users high and dry...
    are you thinking of SWiSH? I think they are still around no?

    http://www.swishzone.com/index.php

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
    HA!! Yes, we're still supporting them!!! Yes it's still in use!!! And why does it matter? Because the same scripts and programs written for our SDK on the Amiga, and same frames can run on our software today!!

    ----------------------------

    There's been something missing from this discussion all along, and that's what I am trying to point out. Andy made an initial post about products -- ultimately leading to a thread about history. But everyone here should be thinking about the PEOPLE, not the products. Ultimately it is PEOPLE who are caught in the middle, when a company goes belly-up, and a product is no longer available.

    Look at New Method Lasers. What the hell are those X29 and Full Auto users going to do now that New Method (and its follow ons) are no longer available?

    I can say the same about products outside of the laser biz as well. Take for example the product called "SWIFT" which *was* a Flash creation and animation product. Pretty cool product really. They were in business for around 10 years then -- nothing. Like men from Mars came and grabbed them up, leaving all of their users high and dry...

    There is also a story about the PEOPLE who created the products, and then went onto something bigger and better.

    Guys, longevity matters because PEOPLE MATTER!!! What happens to the end-users should matter!!

    For the youngsters who have been fortunate enough to never have bought a product that became unavailable or where the company went out of business, good for you, and you can have and express the opinions you're expressing. But mark my words, the bell tolls for you! Check back with me when you're 50 years old and then we'll see if you still agree with the words you've written here!

    Bill
    I turn 50 this Friday.

  9. #99
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    No, Swift 3D by Electric Rain. See this Reddit:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dmodeling/...swift_3d_dead/

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnYayas View Post
    I turn 50 this Friday.
    Welcome to the club! Expect plenty of junk mail from AARP...

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