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Thread: The history of Laser show controllers and software, post your contributions here.

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yol8r View Post
    Other software companies are like any other software company, you pay and you get what you payed for. .......Users don't feel they have to avoid criticizing them because they were given free stuff or discounts.
    TBH, I know Andy will disagree, but I've never avoided criticism where criticism was due just because I got a free licence - above I criticised the post as a little promotional. If you think that's all is what Pangolin are about, you've never had their products. Find me any other laser company where the CEO takes time to offer advice on forums or will email, skype or telephone you in person to sort out your problem even outside of office hours, even at weekends. At most companies, at best, you get to speak to the monkey and only during office hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by andyf97 View Post
    1.
    LOBO has been consider the best "Laser show" producer on the planet and have been at the forefront of development of many technical advancements over the years, even zones for Laser projectors, scanners which feedback position info directly to the software, digital Laser diode drivers and I guess many more. You cannot compare Lobo to anyone except maybe Rolls Royce.
    http://www.lobo.de/index.php?id=home&L=1
    It just shows how little you know about Pangolin.

    Over 12 patents, 27 awards for Technical Achievement and Quality, Award Winning ESD protection through Lasorb, the fastest most advanced and precise scanning system on the market with full digital software control including remote software based tuning, and precise position feedback, PASS the World's most advanced safety system, the World's best Safety lenses, Several Fenning Awards for Technical Innovation to the Laser Industry. I'd call that pretty Rolls Royce. Not doubt Andy you'll call that fan boy. We'll just have to disagree as I take nothing away from other companies, I just don't see the issues you do. Maybe Pangolin can be a little promotional, so what? If you don't like what you're reading skip the promotional part. Others can pull them up if needs be and it's as I said earlier, it's Robert who's the admin here. There's no excuse for "bashing".

    Anyway, apologies for the thread divergence, as earlier Andy started the divergence, so it's only fair to exercise a right to reply.

    Back to the list of systems......

  2. #112
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    <This post is also offtopic>

    Quote Originally Posted by White-Light View Post
    TBH, I know Andy will disagree, but I've never avoided criticism where criticism was due just because I got a free licence - above I criticised the post as a little promotional. If you think that's all is what Pangolin are about, you've never had their products.
    I didn't say everyone is like that. I have Quickshow myself btw. Even if I didn't have a pangolin product that wouldn't make my point less valid. And it's not about pangolin exclusively, more often than I'd wish I see people less inclined to give any form of criticism because they got a special offer or something of that sorts. This isn't about pangolin specifically, and yes, this thread is not about pangolin either.

    Find me any other laser company where the CEO takes time to offer advice on forums or will email, skype or telephone you in person to sort out your problem even outside of office hours, even at weekends. At most companies, at best, you get to speak to the monkey and only during office hours.
    Why the f would I need to talk to a CEO when I get proper customer support? I'm not saying pangolin doesn't have customer support, just saying I have never had the need to contact the CEO directly. There are many companies in the industry that have responded to my emails or Skype even on Sunday, even some chinese companies, that's nothing exclusive to any company here. And it's not always a customer support representative responding, not that their info is usually any less helpful than CEO's. Some CEOs don't even know the answers, they manage the business. And I use software packages from number of fields in my current job, I'm not a hobbyist newbie.
    Last edited by Yol8r; 08-24-2016 at 01:52.

  3. #113
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    Hilarious as always Alan, you should change your username to Alan the forum spammer.

    Ahhhh, Alan, I have a question for you about these awards. Can you tell me, which awards they are and who gave them?

    and a little image especially for you.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #114
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    Holy hell! What happened to this thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yol8r View Post
    Why the f would I need to talk to a CEO when I get proper customer support?
    No one said you had to talk to the CEO. The point was that your *could* do so with Pangolin, if you wanted to, and most people like that. That's not the case with most other companies. Sure, if you still get sufficient support from those other companies' representatives, then that's fine too. But you have to admit that it's pretty cool to be able to talk directly to the person in charge...

    I've seen features added to Pangolin software as a direct result of such interactions with Bill - often within 24 hours. I've never seen that kind of response with any other software. Well, that's not strictly true - with small on-man operations like Gary Harper's Spaghetti and Andrew Kibbler's LSX you have no choice but to speak to the man in charge, and they can often implement changes fairly quickly too. But Pangolin is a much larger software company than either of those other two, so that comparison isn't really valid.

    For sure I've never called Microsoft and been able to speak to Paul Allen, Bill Gates, or Steve Ballmer, nor have I ever requested a feature and had it added to my software the next day...

    I'm not a hobbyist newbie.
    Perhaps people felt you were a newbie and/or younger because of your actions in this thread.?.

    Consider what we have to go on: You are new to the forum, you did not post an introduction, you have not filled out your profile information, and within 10 posts you've gotten into a flame war with a long-standing, respected member of the forums who has done a lot of good for the community. To most people that means one of two things: 1) you are new and inexperienced, or 2) you are using an alias account because you have an axe to grind. (And interestingly, the fact that you said that you are a Pangolin user actually increases the likelihood that # 2 is accurate.)

    Now, I admit there are other possibilities beyond the two scenarios I've outlined. And I'm not trying to accuse you of anything. I'm just explaining the reasoning that is going on based on the limited information we have. Remember: most people are going to assume the worst, absent any further information. If you feel you are being unfairly accused, then before you rail against that, maybe stop for a moment and ask yourself why you were accused in the first place.?.

    If you really are older and experienced, and are not here to grind an axe, then you should also be wise enough to recognize the appearance you are creating, even if you did not intend to do so. And yes, you have every right to your anonymity, but you must also realize that people will make assumptions about your motivations based on that anonymity. (Particularly when you get into a flame war as a new member to the forum.)

    As to the larger issue of thread-crapping, I think it's being overblown. On a good form the discussion evolves and changes within each thread as time passes. That's what keeps the discussions active and keeps people coming back. Also, this thread is 4.5 years old now. I think any complaints about being off-topic are completely moot at this point. Had the discussions above started a few days after the thread was initially posted, you might have had a point. But not now.

    And finally, while I agree that "ageism" is wrong in principle, you must know by now that every forum is the same when it comes to new members: you don't start calling people out for their behavior until you've been a member for a while. That's standard forum etiquette, and it goes all the way back to the USNET and BBS days. And again, the typical people who break this unwritten rule are once again 1) newbies, or 2) people using an alias because they have an axe to grind.

    If you want to change people's perception of your knowledge/experience/motivations, you're going to need to try harder.

    Adam

  5. #115
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    I've seen features added to Pangolin software as a direct result of such interactions with Bill - often within 24 hours.
    I've had Michal Pokluda from Showtcale add a feature I asked him about and send me an updated exe of one of their programs in less than 24 hours. Again pangolin is not special in this regard no matter how much its users and developers will claim it is.
    I don't consider Showtacle to be a tiny company, but if for the sake of argument we agreed that it is I don't see how that would be an invalid comparison, because this is about why pangolin is or isn't better when it comes to customer support.

    Perhaps people felt you were a newbie and/or younger because of your actions in this thread.?.
    Only one person felt that way. So I don't have to change people's perception about me because I don't have a problem there. Maybe Bill has.

    As to the larger issue of thread-crapping, I think it's being overblown. On a good form the discussion evolves and changes within each thread as time passes.
    Only when the original discussion has reached a dead end and I think it's clear it hasn't.

  6. #116
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    Nicely stated, Adam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yol8r View Post
    Only one person felt that way. So I don't have to change people's perception about me because I don't have a problem there. Maybe Bill has.
    Just because the rest of the forum hasn't come forward to tell a new poster that they are out of line for either of the reasons Adam described doesn't mean we aren't thinking it and mentally flagging your nickname as someone to avoid in the future.
    "Help, help, I'm being repressed!"

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkumpula View Post
    Just because the rest of the forum hasn't come forward to tell a new poster that they are out of line for either of the reasons Adam described doesn't mean we aren't thinking it and mentally flagging your nickname as someone to avoid in the future.
    Go ahead and avoid me if you want, I know many members here from elsewhere and we have gotten along just fine over the years.

    Instead of standing behind someone's back how about you tell me yourself why I'm "out of line", because I did respond to what he said before you said you agree with him.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yol8r View Post
    I've had Michal Pokluda from Showtcale add a feature I asked him about and send me an updated exe of one of their programs in less than 24 hours. Again pangolin is not special in this regard no matter how much its users and developers will claim it is.
    I don't consider Showtacle to be a tiny company, but if for the sake of argument we agreed that it is I don't see how that would be an invalid comparison, because this is about why pangolin is or isn't better when it comes to customer support.


    Only one person felt that way. So I don't have to change people's perception about me because I don't have a problem there. Maybe Bill has.


    Only when the original discussion has reached a dead end and I think it's clear it hasn't.
    Looks like we have a troll in this thread. LOL
    Watching Lasers Since 1981

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yol8r View Post
    I've had Michal Pokluda from Showtcale add a feature I asked him about and send me an updated exe of one of their programs in less than 24 hours.
    That's a valid example, thanks for mentioning it. I have no experience with Showtacle, but it's nice to see that they are so attentive.

    Again pangolin is not special in this regard no matter how much its users and developers will claim it is.
    I would argue that Pangolin (and possibly Showtacle, based on the example you provided) *IS* special in this regard, because it is not the norm for software companies to immediately issue an update to a user based on a single phone call. I, too, have dealt with many other companies (and even a few other laser show software companies), and Pangolin is the only one that has consistently responded with feature updates almost immediately. The experiences of other members here on the forum echo this sentiment. Your single example (Showtacle) simply suggests that they could also be very responsive, and thus also special.

    Re: company size... this is about why pangolin is or isn't better when it comes to customer support.
    My point is that a larger company with multiple programmers is normally less likely/able to respond in a timely manner than a one-man-show. Pangolin is the exception in that regard. (And you may choose to include Showtacle if you wish.)

    Only one person felt that way.
    You can believe that if you want. I think David's post above illustrates a blind spot in your thinking, however.

    So I don't have to change people's perception about me because I don't have a problem there.
    Refusal to even acknowledge that you might be a small part of the problem (especially in the face of evidence provided by others not involved in the flame war) is yet another classic sign of a newbie and/or a troll or sock-puppet account. So yeah, you might just have a perception problem there. Food for thought.

    Only when the original discussion has reached a dead end and I think it's clear it hasn't.
    Who are you to dictate to the rest of the forum how a discussion can evolve? More to the point, when is it a "dead end"? It's been over 4 years dude!

    Seriously, it's becoming much more difficult for me to accept your claims that you are not new or that you don't have a hidden agenda. Your behavior thus far suggests nothing else.

    Adam

  10. #120
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    Gone are the days when new members were welcome no matter what opinion they had.. Whoever Yol8r is, its not like relevant anyway just like many other members who have not added there age sex and location, phone, fax and email address. Who the F do you guys think you are to question any member based on how many posts they have or how much info they gave. You are the PL police who have some right? Shameful you guys call yourself Laserists.

    I do recall that PL was a website for people interested in Lasers.

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