About to buy my first RGB system (direct from China) - any advice appreciated

[dsmudger]

Hi All, another sort-of newbie thread/any help and comments much appreciated..

So I had a basic TTL-type RGB system loaned to me for a while (650/350mw, 532/150mw, 473/100mw, 30k scanner; I was mostly playing around with the inbuilt patterns via an iPad sending DMX), but recently my friend's taken it back, and I really miss it, so I'm buying my own laser


The main use will be at home - to develop my knowledge about all this, and obviously the occasional house party (I have a bit of DMX lighting gear like LED bars, an optikinetics projector etc).

So in terms of priorities, I figured I should be saving money on overall laser power and using it for features like analogue modulation, a fast scanner, generally full-featured control boards e.g. with SD card playback etc.

....

So I've been emailing back and forth with some Chinese suppliers (asking for specs, price lists, pdf instruction manuals etc), and a couple of them have some stuff I think looks really nice and at great prices. Seems much more flexible and cheaper than going to eBay, where the various compromises and trade-offs have been chosen for you.

So I was hoping to run some of it by you and get some opinions


The supplier that looks the most promising so far is www.gagalight.com

For instance here's something I'm seriously considering:

Animation laser,DMX512,AUTO,Sound,ILDA control,256 patterns,
ILDA file playback from SD card (with DMX control over that as well as optional sound-active in that mode),
Analog,10K modulation
R>150mw/640nm* G>150mw/532 B>500mw/445nm

$1038 with 40k scanner

*might be a typo; the section heading is "New product! Hot RGB series with 637 red series" ..I'll check/maybe 3nm makes no odds anyway


This is all very customisable - it's cheaper with slower scanners ($774 with 20k scanners), a tiny bit cheaper with 100/100/300mw modules etc. Going up, the price jumps to $1662 for 300/300/800mw (for 40k), so the above seems like a good point to stop on the bang/buck curve. There's similar stuff for ~200 less without SD, but I want that..

The rep also said they have DT40 scanners as an option - this bit I haven't managed to research yet - what they are exactly, what's the difference vs. 'not-DT' 40k scanners/if it's worth the price difference etc

650nm is available but saves very little, besides I gather the shorter wavelength reds are nicer, and more visible for a given power (so overall I'm thinking I'm getting a similar brightness to the one I had on loan, which I didn't find even remotely lacking for the kind of spaces I'm using it in)

473nm blue is also available, doesn't seem to cost much extra - hard to tell because in their standard options they lose the SD playback and pair it with 450reds in a series called 'Perfect RGB' - I don't know much about the 473 wavelength, but I had a look at some pics on cnilaser.com and it does look pretty Can it be combined nicely with 637 red? (all the greens are 532) Then again I guess with analogue I can just mix that colour/it's kind of cyan-ish..

....

So anyway, basically it looks like I can get something nice for ~$1000, which I'm happy to spend, and they seem happy to do custom orders. But although I've been doing my homework, I think I don't know quite enough just yet to make a fully informed decision, so I thought this was the time to pause and ask the group

Likewise of course, any particular things that could catch me out that I havent thought of? As I say I'm a bit new to all this..

Cheers all for taking the time to read.. Dan

[Moon-raker]

There will be plenty of people tell you what's wrong with Chinese laser projectors, but I'll just say that in your budget and for what they're selling you, I would recommend just building a laser projector yourself. It would be fun and you would learn more about this hobby. I think all of the equipment mentioned could be gotten for much less than $1000. A laser case can be created using an old PC case or speaker case. If you're not planning to do any public shows, you'll be good to go. I'll state the biggest obvious problem with the Chinese projectors - they aren't certified and if they get seized at Customs, you'll be out a projector and probably $1000.

[dsmudger]

Damn that rather puts a downer on the whole thing Well, thanks for the heads up about that..

I guess you're right it will be interesting though, and that it should be cheaper is obviously great news, but I'm a bit concerned about the time it'll take to learn so much from the ground up (got just a couple of weeks off before starting a new job). TBH I was more interested in the ILDA programming and DMX side of things really (and I'm pretty familiar with the latter already), so thought I could hit the ground running with a cheapy but more or less ok ready-built system, and maybe iron out some of the rough edges over time by learning about calibration and whatnot..

Well, in any case, any pointers on where to start? (Sorry I know search-is-your-friend and that, but I hadn't really considered building it myself, so I'm kind of right back to square one apart from having a bit of an overview of what all the various parts are/seems kind of daunting what with so little time before I'm going to be crazy-busy again with work..)

[Moon-raker]

You're on the right forum. There's a lot of DIYers here. I built a green one a while back and it was pretty simple. An RBG is more complicated due to alignment and the dicros required, but pretty much the same concept.

[kitatit]

Hi Dan,
Welcome to PL
Smart move checking here first.
This first step has potentially saved you a lot of time and money.

There are a bunch of top people in the UK who are respected members here who are quiet active and may be abe to help you out.
stanwax,andy_con,norty303,p1t8ull,Jem,White-Light,soforene,danielbriggs to name just a few.

These guys have built many top notch projectors. Most of them have got the illness of laser addiction pretty bad too

Thats good for you, as they are always thinking about and building bigger and better stuff.

There is a good chance they have one of their earlier builds that they aren't using now that they can sell you and you may be able to get it quicker than from China too, with all the advantages of buying local.

Good luck
Kit

[Jem]

Hi Dan

Yes, Welcome to PL

May I respectfully suggest that you contact Rob at Stanwax Lasers here in the UK? (search for 'Stanwax' here on the forum).

Rob builds some lovely small projectors, admittedly they're perhaps not in the same price bracket as the cheap Chinese stuff, BUT... You'll get an extremely well built, quality product using quality components that's made here in the UK. It will also come with a warranty that IS worth the paper it's written on. Plus, you get to deal with a thoroughly nice bloke who IS very interested in the product he sells and will support you all the way. If you ever get a problem with the projector it's a simple case of either hopping in the car and paying Rob a visit OR sticking it in the post and it'll arrive next day.

If you can get up to Wakefield (M1 J40) on 6th, 7th, 8th July there's a Laser Enthusiasts Meeting, failing that there's another meet later this year in Surfleet, Lincs on 31st August, 1st and 2nd September. You'll see lots of projectors at these meets and it's a great place to meet and chat to other enthusiasts. Just take a look in the 'meet and greet' section of the forum to find more information on these LEM's.

Cheers

Jem

[dsmudger]

Cheers guys those last 2-3 posts've picked up my spirits a bit (spent ages researching those chinese lasers so kinda felt ready to just give up and leave the whole thing for a while )

I think all of the equipment mentioned could be gotten for much less than $1000.

Well that's kinda my budget - can you suggest what sort of places I should be getting parts from? I'll build it if it means I can still keep to that budget, and I've kind of come round to the idea now..

Rob builds some lovely small projectors, admittedly they're perhaps not in the same price bracket as the cheap Chinese stuff, BUT ...

OK cheers I'll def. check out that angle too (search the forums for build threads to start with, then get in touch..) - if it's not a huge amount more, and I can get one with analogue modulation, SD playback and ILDA/DMX.. then yeah, might be a goer that idea - and yeah I have to say the loaner I had, I did have a look inside and let's just say the layout made me think 'wow they haven't even tried to make efficient use of the space' - compact size and lightweight would certainly be a feature worth paying extra for over those 15kg+ Chinese cast-iron monsters

[dsmudger]

Actually what'd be really helpful, is if you guys could explain the list of parts I'll need? Then I can start googling and searching the forums..

At a high level I know I need:

1. A beam combiner - no worries on that part, I see the stanwax website sells complete RGB sets for £105
2. Power supply - no worries, £20 from Stanwax
3. Case - I'm sure I'll be able to combobulate something/I'll see what others have done etc
...
4. Electronics - ok here I have no clue - what are all the various boards called? (seen some on Stanwax, but not sure which ones are needed and which are optional add-ons)
5. R G and B laser modules - can I buy these from China e.g. cnilaser.com, or is it the same problem? (I'm really surprised they get confiscated by customs if they're legal to buy in the UK.. after all surely most things are made in China these days, so how do the UK sellers import them? or is it that some sellers use kitemark-approved parts and Chinese OEM complete-system builders at the cheaper end tend not to?)

(the exact modules, wavelengths and balance of power is as they say 'an exercise for the interested reader' - I think I'll be fine/I think I know where to start/I've seen the 'Chroma Colour Blender' thread, I'll go look at some RGB build threads too..)

EDIT: how could I forget..
6. Scanners - I've heard DT40 is good... but in any case 30kpps is kinda the minimum/most ILDA shows are targetted at that, Haven't been able to dig much up on DT 40 though - is it a tradmarked name from a particular brand, or just a generic name that means it meets a certain spec and made by many manufacturers?

[Jem]

You'll pretty much get everything you need from Rob's online store. Don't forget that if you buy stuff that's already here in the UK you'll get a 'UK' guarantee. Also, don't forget that anything you import yourself will be subject to VAT and import duty. This makes those Chinese 'bargains' not seem quite so much like bargains anymore

Jem

[White-Light]

I second all of the above.

Also remember, some Chinese projectors are of poor quality. Whereas you might not need something built like a Porsche for your 1st projector, equally I think you'd be disappointed if one of your lasers failed after a couple of months and replacing it was more expensive than the entire projector had been.

Building will get you quality but probably not at Chinese prices but far cheaper than ready built quality. It will also get you expandabiity if you plan ahead as many components will be re-usable if you upgrade.

If you must buy cheap, then consider someone like NRG projectors - better than your average Chinese but probably not as good as you could build yourself.

I'm afraid this can be an expensive hobby. However, its cheaper in the long run to start off with quality than buy cheap and have to throw it most or all of it out on upgrade.