Starting to be a little disheartened with Pangolin Quick Show

[swamidog]

i think you're misusing the terms "open source" and "hobbyist" here.

Pangolin's high end product "laser show designer 2000" allows ilda export of unprotected show content.
Pangolins low end "hobbyist" product "Quick Show" does not allow ilda export of any content.

Laser Show Express (LSX) allows ilda export of unprotected show content.

None of these applications are open source, and I would argue that Quick Show is aimed more toward the hobbyist market than LSX is.

Only the open source hobbyist developed packages tend to allow the export of files to .ild.

[masterpj]

About sharing:
Share your quickshow format with all the quickshow and beyond users here
That pangolin showportal is worth checking out.
Share it there if you just want to share it.

And post it here if you want the feedback with it.

Regarding the drawing and how to improve your drawing/editing speed and quality in quickshow: I will get back to this very soon.

[tsteele93]

Just an observation -

For someone who just got their first projector, you seem to be "maxing out" your software experience awfully quick!
Before you start spending more $$$ for THE software package that does everything you want it to do, you might want to spend a lot of quality time with the software you have and really learn it, inside-out.

Fair enough, but as someone who is new, I find it odd that I AM able to run headlong into limitations so quickly.

For instance, I'm not trying to even put together complicated shows. I could even argue that I AM moving slowly. One of my first goals was simply to take an ild file of a single picture of the superhero "Robin" and color it and make some optimization edits to show off to my five year old kid.

And I run into quick trace, which from what I can tell, is honestly archaic. I will gladly step back and say I was wrong if I am doing it wrong, but just trying to use the toolbar that is there is a very poor experience.

Even just now finding out about Trace-It and playing with it today, it seems huge steps forward for trying to edit a picture like that. I'm not at all aware of why it is a download that you have to find out about on the forums and not part of the QS software that comes with the FB3.

But even with Trace-It, I seem to have run into a huge problem. Unless I am just doing something wrong again, it seems like if I stop working on a trace and save it to ILDA file, then I cannot come back and re-load that ILDA file and continue editing later.

If graphics shows is all you are interested in, keep in mind that NONE of the software packages out there are going to turn you into an instant, quick graphics artist.

I know, but the ones I am using from Pangolin seem hell-bent on KEEPING me from being a graphic artist. My complaints aren't that they are not turning me into an instant artist. My complaints are about how hard they are making it. There is plenty of photo editing software to take cues from and to use as a template. Maybe that is my problem, I'm expecting photoshop-like elegance in the drawing packages. To be fair, I'd gladly take paint shop pro or elements features though.

Also, if all you have been watching is cues shot on a wall, you are missing a HUGE part of the laser viewing experience -

As you say, I need to walk before I run. I don't have as many options for safe beam shows right now, but I can safely set up on a wall and make SURE no one can get between the laser and the wall and have a safe and impressive experience. I'll try scrims and beam shows later after I've gotten some graphics under my belt.

As far as your disappointment with Pangolin -

Again, you seem to be getting there awfully quick!

And again I would say, "yeah, I was really surprised to be able to get there so quickly!"

I think you'll find that on this forum anyway, the Pangolin FB3 has a VERY big following, and for good reason!
There a very big community here that would be very happy to help and share in your creative efforts.

Well please do. I honestly am not trying to turn this into a Pangolin bashing session. I realize that everyone has things they are fans of and any criticism or questions tend to come across as "fighting words" but I'm in $600 deep to Pangolin which is fully half what I spent on the hardware of the projector, so TO ME I have some skin in the game.

I realize that to the pros this is just chump change, but for a guy setting up a projector for kicks, I feel like I bought into some pretty expensive software so I had high expectations.

That all said, I do feel like I have been respectful and I have freely admitted that my ignorance might be to blame and I would gladly accept help in accomplishing my goals. For the most part, it has ended up being a discussion telling me why I shouldn't expect to be able to do those things, rather than discussions showing me that they are doable and I was just missing how to do it...

Have you checked out the Pangolin Shows portal?
Plenty of opportunity there to share cues & shows!!

Oh yeah, I even posted here asking if there were any suggestions of "must-download" shows.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the ILD export limitation ~
There are many reasons Pangolin doesn't export that format, and trust me when I say the user base really does NOT suffer because of it!

I freely admit that I just don't know. But it seems like not being able to save to it limits me to only playing with other QS owners. And again, don't really know about this, but I don't think I can load pangolins other software created shows either. It makes it feel like I am in the cheap seats and very limited with Pangolin.

Also, keep in mind that the FB3 card does open you up to the possibility of using 'Beyond' sometime down the road, which is a whole new ballgame...

I'm scared to ask what beyond costs. I'm afraid it may be well beyond my $ budget.

Couple of things to keep in mind when learning about this laser craziness (passed down from the school of "been there, done that"):
1. You get what you pay for!
2. Patience is a virtue...

Yeah, I am sure that try as I might, I still probably am coming off as a chump. I waltz in and don't know why my lowest-rung-on-the-ladder pangolin software won't do the things that most users have come to expect from the high end software.

But to be fair, I do feel like I AM running into walls and limitations rather quickly. Maybe I am mistaken and the things that seem important to me now will be silly later, but just coming in and playing around I don't get it yet. I DO know that I am only scratching the surface, but that is what has me so surprised to be scratching up against limitations. I wasn't really expecting to even discover them yet...

I mean none of this mean-spiritedly and I'm not screaming, "I paid $600 and this software stinks!" I'm just trying to understand WHY I see these limitations already and trying to understand if there are ways around them or if those ways involve other software.



Tom

[tsteele93]

About sharing:
Share your quickshow format with all the quickshow and beyond users here
That pangolin showportal is worth checking out.
Share it there if you just want to share it.

And post it here if you want the feedback with it.

Regarding the drawing and how to improve your drawing/editing speed and quality in quickshow: I will get back to this very soon.

Remember, it IS just a drawing of ROBIN from Batman and Robin! LOL!

I'll upload it, if I can figure out which one I should upload... The trace-it version or the QS version.

[White-Light]

i think you're misusing the terms "open source" and "hobbyist" here.

Pangolin's high end product "laser show designer 2000" allows ilda export of unprotected show content.
Pangolins low end "hobbyist" product "Quick Show" does not allow ilda export of any content.

Laser Show Express (LSX) allows ilda export of unprotected show content.

None of these applications are open source, and I would argue that Quick Show is aimed more toward the hobbyist market than LSX is.

I'm pretty sure, LD2000 is discontinued in favour of Beyond. It only allows the export of ILD because of it's age - it's comprised of products replaced by Beyond, in fact LD2000 now comes free with Beyond just as LiveQuick is free to QS users! ILD was the only format back then which explains why it was used.

LSX is one of the few products that do allow unprotected ILD export, but then again its a hobbyist built platform albeit a very powerful one.

Nearly all the commercial solutions from big software manufacturers have abandoned ild export. eg Moncha and Fiesta both have proprietary formats (.bnk and .eff). I can't see an ILD option in my demo copy. Pangolin does. I'm not sure about Phoenix as I only have a demo of version 4 and it doesn't allow export. But if it doesn't support ILD, that's most of the big names.

[mixedgas]

LSX is not a hobby build. It had its origins in the highly restricted German commercial software, LDS.

As recoded it is one massive improvement over LDS.

Please note that there is now more then one program calling itself LDS.

Steve

[swamidog]

according to http://www.showtacle.com/products/softwarecomparison, the low-end moncha doesn't support ilda export, but fiesta 2 and fiesta.net do.

i have no experience with Beyond, so i can't comment on it.

i'm certainly not arguing the merits of the ilda standard. it's old, it's dusty, and it's badly in need of being modernized. however, it is the current standard and the only universal way to move content from one application to another.

what if i wanted to use a LSX or digisynth abstract in LD2000 or beyond? what if i wanted to trace a login with tracit and import it into fiesta? what if i wanted to sell content i create in beyond to a phoenix user?

there are only two reasons to abandon the industry standard in favor of a proprietary standard:

1) to force an upgrade to a superior standard. this is accomplished by releasing your standard and sdk for free or to make money by licensing your standard to other application developers.

2) to force users to remain within your application ecosystem. this is done to create or maintain a monopoly.

I'm pretty sure, LD2000 is discontinued in favour of Beyond. It only allows the export of ILD because of it's age - it's comprised of products replaced by Beyond, in fact LD2000 now comes free with Beyond just as LiveQuick is free to QS users! ILD was the only format back then which explains why it was used.

LSX is one of the few products that do allow unprotected ILD export, but then again its a hobbyist built platform albeit a very powerful one.

Nearly all the commercial solutions from big software manufacturers have abandoned ild export. eg Moncha and Fiesta both have proprietary formats (.bnk and .eff). I can't see an ILD option in my demo copy. Pangolin does. I'm not sure about Phoenix as I only have a demo of version 4 and it doesn't allow export. But if it doesn't support ILD, that's most of the big names.

[Stuka]

Hmmm, maybe one more tiny reason -

3) Protecting licensed content that the company paid for, or that it user's plan to create and sell...

[White-Light]

according to http://www.showtacle.com/products/softwarecomparison, the low-end moncha doesn't support ilda export, but fiesta 2 and fiesta.net do.

It says they play ILDA. Not mention of outputting it.

Certainly my demo copy of Fiesta.net only appears to allow the proprietary export format (I'd be happy to be proven wrong though):



You can import ILD into Pangolin just not export it.

[swamidog]

this is an excellent point. i'm sorry i wasn't clear. i am only advocating for strictly user created content to be exportable to ILDA. no proprietary or licensed content. LD2000 and LSX already have mechanisms for this.

Hmmm, maybe one more tiny reason -

3) Protecting licensed content that the company paid for, or that it user's plan to create and sell...