Music/laser synchronization

[carmangary]

Wow. Thanks everyone for the great responses and information! I am looking forward to trying out different things.

[Pangolin]

Hi Astro,

That's a great question, and one that we had to ask ourselves as well. About a year ago, we asked our main dealers two questions:

1. If we have the capability of running Pangolin software on other people's hardware, what do you think of that idea?
2. Since we have USB hardware too, should we open up an API such that other people's software can run on our hardware?

Much to our surprise, unanimously, our dealers stated two things in reply: Lets say we make our software run on someone else's hardware and that client has a problem. It would be impossible to tell if it is Pangolin's problem, or the fault of the hardware. Likewise, lets say someone else's software is running on our USB hardware and that client has a problem? Either way, you can see that it opens up the possibility to misinterpreted a problem as being "our fault", whether it is or not...

Our dealers recognize that the name Pangolin stands for quality, and (even to our surprise), they didn't want to risk it. So if our dealers don't want to risk it, then we shouldn't either...

So this software package that we have planned will come with its own hardware, and yet the entire package will be priced similarly to others' hardware alone.

As I said, stay tuned

Best regards,

William Benner

[buffo]

Very interesting Bill!

"The hardware & software combination will be priced similarly to other vendor's hardware alone..."

Wow! Now that is quite a claim. If you can meet that price point, you'll surely snag a large portion of the hobbyist market. (Count me in!)

Ok, now that you've gotten us all to sit up and beg, and to drool like Pavlov's dogs, when do you think this new product will be ready for market? (Don't worry, we're not going to nail you to the wall if you miss the date - we just want to know if it's worth delaying another purchase for several months....)

Adam

[LASER-AD]

Awesome Bill! NEXT--- DPSS Lasers!!!

[Pangolin]

Hi Buffo,

Thanks for the kudos. One thing I remind people about in the LaserFreak community is, that I too was once a hobbyist. In fact, as I think about it, most people who now do lasershows as a profession also started out as a hobbyist. So I don't mind helping out hobbyists and the LaserFreak community.

Up until recently, I didn't really think that any of our software or hardware was quite suitable for this segment, especially at the level of price sensitivity that seems to be here. Also, Pangolin normally sells through dealers, who get an additional mark up on our products. Of course, dealers offer valuable support to their clients, so they should be compensated adequately for their support and service. But upon reflecting about this, I realized that we could distribute a cost-reduced version of our FB3 (no DMX daughterboard and no included smartmedia memory module), and re-form one of our existing pieces of software, and sell directly to hobbyists. BUT (or and), in selling direct this means that there will be a lower level of support. But while thinking about this, hobbyists and LaserFreaks are already accustomed to supporting themselves anyway, through forums like this one. We are taking a bit of a risk in doing this, but lets see what happens

Since this is a re-formed piece of software we already have, the software is nearly finished. We are just about to have one person on this forum start testing it. As I mentioned above, the hardware will be our FB3, but without the DMX Daughterboard (the FB3 is modular, so we can attach and detach different sections based on the desired capability and price requirement). So this means if anyone else on this forum already has an FB3 let me know, and I will get the software into your hands to test. The more people testing the better.

Bill

[Pangolin]

Hi jian725,

Until just a few days ago, I have never heard of these DT scanners. Upon looking at the picture on a colleague's web site, they appear to be made in China. Honestly folks, I have seen a lot of scanners made in China, and have even seen their construction techniques. So far I have not been impressed, but I am willing to take a look at these DT scanners. (We have some specialized test equipment for working with scanners at Pangolin, and I have a few issued and pending patents on scanner technology, so I know what I am taking about.) I would like to evaluate these scanners, and give a report.

Does anyone know where we can acquire a pair of these? And what about the cost?

Best regards,

William Benner

[Spec]

I can have 2 inbound in a week and they are right around $600 each shipped.

Give me a couple days to see If I can loan you a couple units for testing. I will need them back though.

[Banthai]

Hi Bill

the guy that makes and supplies the DT40 pro scanners actually posted in this thread 8 posts back and is called jian725 and there is a link to the DT website at the bottom of his post

PS ... hope you are keeping well


all the best ... Karl

[Pangolin]

Hi Karl,

Thanks for the pointer. The web site looks impressive. He seems to be detail oriented which is absolutely critical in the field of scanners.

By the way, I recently visited the factory of a Chinese scanner manufacturer. Amazing to see how they completely overlooked every detail. They had chosen a magnet that would die if it was heated above 80 degrees C. The problem is, with this scanner technology the magnet can get to 100 degrees C in only 2 seconds (no kidding). When I asked them about bearings it was funny. They purchased bearings from Japan, but did not specify the lubricant, ball type, or ball retainer type -- who the heck knows what kind of bearings they actually received... The position sensor was a copy of a position sensor that Dick Ivers came up with back in 1991 (probably the same position sensor all Chinese companies are using...). BUT, this company completely overlooked all of the little details involved in this position sensor, including the type and placement of the LED, the type of bulk area sensors, and even the "color" of the sensor vane (i.e. using a black-anodized piece of aluminum instead of just a non-coated piece). And I won't even mention how they were making coils... Really, making coils for this type of scanner is a kind of magic. There is a sort of secret way of winding it to get a perfect result. A special kind of wire must be used, and then it must be bonded to the scanner with a special type of high temperature thermally-conductive epoxy. At the time I visited this company, I think they were going to bond the coil to the case with super glue, which is a good INSULATOR, not conductor... I suspect this is true of most Chinese scanner companies. And then there is the typical mistake made by inexperienced users -- the mistake that thinking thinner mirrors must certainly be faster than thicker ones, because they are "lighter". Sorry, that's just not true... At Pangolin we have a rule-of-thumb that, for glass mirrors, the thickness should be at least 1/12 the longest dimension, otherwise the structural rigidity will be compromised and you get sort of “ringing” in the lines.

The scanner business is highly detail oriented and you must get all of the details correct if you want a good result. That's why we only recommend and use Cambridge scanners. Of course, for those on a budget, this is not always possible... It could be that these DT scanners are the next best thing.

In looking at the DT web site, As far as I can tell, they look like 30K scanners to me, from the pictures that are being shown. Sure, you can input signals that are scanning faster than 30K, and they might look acceptable to some people. But when looking at the ILDA test pattern itself, they look like 30K scanners to me...

From the pictures on the web site, the amps look like a copy of Cambridge 671xx series. Same LM3886 power op amp – same kind of notch filter, even in the same place. I must say, I don’t like it when people copy other people (especially me, which is why we have started patenting things lately)… This other Chinese scanner company was a prime example of the downside of copying. They reproduced the size and shape of the magnet, but didn't really know what type of magnet to use, or why, or where the trade-offs are. Same thing with the LED inside the position sensor. They had an LED in there alright, but it wasn’t the right kind of LED, and it wasn't in the right place. Blind reproduction, without knowing WHY things are done, can not ultimately lead to a quality result. In the end, it is counterproductive for everyone...

Anyway, I will acquire some and take a look. We can crank them up on our LDV (Laser Doppler Velocimeter -- lets us see the structural rigidity and resonances INSIDE the scanner) and our DSA (Dynamic Signal Analyzer -- lets us see the resonance profile of the scanner, and of the entire scanner/servo system as a whole) and see just how good of a job this guy has done

Best regards,

William Benner

[BoomDog]

Interested to hear your results; I just got my set in yesterday, though I don't have any other components so I can't try them out yet. And although I've heard of horrible things about chinese scanners like you've said, all I've heard is praise for these DT40 Pros. Let us know how it goes.