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Thread: Laserscope KTP

  1. #11
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    Chad, awesome reply.

    I've read a lot about, and even witnessed a local's projector that had the optics table "seperated" from the washing machine.
    He said it cost him $100,000 all up to do *which i don't believe in the slightest* ... however he did say the cables and shit were critical, and had to be permanently attached. So basically you couldn't have an umbilical with a big amphenol connector or likewise...

    I can sorta believe that - if there is any fancy timing that is required to drive shutters etc.

    In your experience, how much work would it be to seperate the optics table ?
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  2. #12
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    Default Re: What is a mozzy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spec
    Mosquitio in colloquial Australian, and they are being burnt because they really have no business in the line of one of those things anyways, its not like they have much of an option either... attracted to light.
    Ahhhh! Ok - makes sense now... (I was thinking it referred to marshmallows or something!)

    Yeah, I imagine 40 watts would fry just about anything that happened to stray into the beam path. (And all that burnt insect flesh falling into the crowd too.. Yummy!)

    Adam

  3. #13
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    And all that burnt insect flesh falling into the crowd too.. Yummy!
    After watching I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here! fried mozzies would be quite a treat in the bush :lol:

    Jim

  4. #14
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    It wouldn't be too bad to separate. The trickiest part is the hv to the flash-lamp, you could probably find some good high voltage high current cable for this (think 8 gauge neon sign cable). all of the other stuff is low voltage and low current ( the oven takes some juice but it isn't too bad). You will have to get some good coax for the q-switch.

    Now the head floats on the tub to reduce vibration. This system is a z fold resonator and is pretty easy to knock out of alignment. there is also quite a few adjustments in this thing so it does take some time to get aligned optimally.
    Another thing, If you have ever had your fingers in say, 5 watts argon you know it pretty quick, if you get your fingers in 150 watts(rms) 1064 you get instantaneous burn and smoke! You HAVE to have some good 532/1064 glasses not optional!!! heck out of the yag HR you can get ~20 watts. If you put black foil in the 1064 it buzzes from microns of AL being ablated.

    As for $100,000 for the conversion... If he paid that please give him my email address i will be happy to do another one for him, i will even take 25% off!!

    Figure 1500 or so for good cable, good hoses, good quick connectors, a solid enclosure for the head and all the mis crap that you don't know that you needed.

    I don't mean to sound so pessimistic but i have used these and they are a pain. They are also big boy toys and can F u up pretty fast if you don't know what you are doing and it is easy to mess up the ktp if not aligned correct. So Be careful... Oh yea i also wouldn't extend much over 10 feet any more than this and you will start getting into all kinds of inductance and resistance problems with stuff (thermistors,highvoltage, heaters, power sensors...)

    Chad

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad
    It wouldn't be too bad to separate. The trickiest part is the hv to the flash-lamp, you could probably find some good high voltage high current cable for this (think 8 gauge neon sign cable). all of the other stuff is low voltage and low current ( the oven takes some juice but it isn't too bad). You will have to get some good coax for the q-switch.

    Now the head floats on the tub to reduce vibration. This system is a z fold resonator and is pretty easy to knock out of alignment. there is also quite a few adjustments in this thing so it does take some time to get aligned optimally.
    Another thing, If you have ever had your fingers in say, 5 watts argon you know it pretty quick, if you get your fingers in 150 watts(rms) 1064 you get instantaneous burn and smoke! You HAVE to have some good 532/1064 glasses not optional!!! heck out of the yag HR you can get ~20 watts. If you put black foil in the 1064 it buzzes from microns of AL being ablated.

    As for $100,000 for the conversion... If he paid that please give him my email address i will be happy to do another one for him, i will even take 25% off!!

    Figure 1500 or so for good cable, good hoses, good quick connectors, a solid enclosure for the head and all the mis crap that you don't know that you needed.

    I don't mean to sound so pessimistic but i have used these and they are a pain. They are also big boy toys and can F u up pretty fast if you don't know what you are doing and it is easy to mess up the ktp if not aligned correct. So Be careful... Oh yea i also wouldn't extend much over 10 feet any more than this and you will start getting into all kinds of inductance and resistance problems with stuff (thermistors,highvoltage, heaters, power sensors...)

    Chad
    Chad, again you've outdone yourself with a reply so full of info!

    I suspect this chap only told me $100k to "scare me off"... he's told me quite a few stories that make the laser industry just sound so bad to be in. *shrugs*. It's his bread and butter, so I guess I can understand why.

    As alternatives, what would you suggest for 3 watts or so of green ? I'd almost put up with the pain of using a 'scope if it means 10 times the power for 0.1 times the cost....

    Do you have any pics of your scopes ?
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  6. #16
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    Sorry had to post again.

    I couldn't state it better myself!!

    and this is a, pardon the expression, metric fuckton of light.
    And if you want more or " pardon the expression, metric fuckton AND A HALF of light" You could get your self a Coherent Corona dpss 100w 532 q switched. A friend of mine works for Coherent and when i was visiting he dragged me to the factory for a tour. I have seen this laser melt through the end of a 1/16 Allen wrench. very scary power. Like you said lee makes a similar beast. Or you could go for a coherent viper 10 watt cw 532....
    Oh and if you have never seen a femto second laser focused in air it breaks down the air molecules and creates a little plasma ball floating in space really cool! - also scary power levels!

    I have the 808 guts to a viper. I keep telling myself one of these years i will turn it into some green. 40w of 808 is fun to burn stuff for a little while but visible is more fun.

    hhhm maybe i should line up a couple of hundred of feet of balloons and pop them in a second or two
    :roll:

    Chad

  7. #17
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    I was using these about 5 years ago when i ran the laser division for a fireworks company so i don't have them any more. I might have some pics not sure any more..

    If i were you i would just find the biggest Chinese dpss you can afford and go with those. The problem with newish laserist people ( and i mean this in the best possible way) is the big dick syndrome ( i am dealing with this for a client at this time). Everybody seems to think the only thing they need is more watts. They don't realize that time is money, ions and watter cooled stuff takes a lot longer to set up, is more fragile needs more power ( are you comfortable tying into 208 3 phase hot?). Watter leaks, freezing (at least here). If something breaks during a show it reflects bad on you. You won't get paid and now you have waisted all that time pissed off a client and have to pay for some big tweaky thing to be replaced. I m a firm believer in solid state pretty much being the only option to stay competitive in today's market.. If you were building a planetarium system and the laser never moved had power and water then an ion or other high maintenance laser makes sense, but not for road gigs.

    There is so much more to a good "production" than just brightness. I would much rather have multiple scan heads and lots of effects than one bright beam. Programing and performance ability vastly outweigh raw power.

    Just consider setup time, reliability, quality, professionalism, and value.

    .02c

    Chad

  8. #18
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    Aug 2005
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    Default Re: Laserscope KTP

    Quote Originally Posted by aijii
    So... who on here has one of these ?

    got pics ? stories ? tips and tricks ? anything one should be aware of before a purchase?
    I had one here that I converted for show use and then sold since it's way more than I will ever need. I'll see if Ihave some pics to post. They're not nearly as scary or complex as most people make them out to be. They are fairly dangerous though since they are q-swiched and have a peak power near 20KW. I removed all the non-essential optics and was able to make a decent collimator using a couple of the lenses I pulled out. Ended up with a beam that easily fit on the 10mm mirrors on the Cambridge 6230 scanners I used and was probably around 2mrad divergence. They are multimode so that's probably the best divergence you can expect. With that much power (mine did 43W), the beam is still very visible even when it gets large.

    The a.l.e. arclamp power supply is reasonably well documented so I was able to build a control box that bypassed the built-in computer. You also need a KTP heater controller since the KTP needs to be heated for both efficiency and higher power handling (sounds strange, but KTP has a much higher damage threshold when kept hot).

    If you're looking for one, make sure it's not an early 700 series since those used a custom made arclamp PSU that's unreliable and expensive to replace / repair. Specifically, make sure you are getting the a.l.e. PSU. You may also want to get an 800 series with the internal heat exchanger. Otherwise you will need a source of running water or an external chiller for cooling. I think there is some more advice about picking a good unit in Sam's FAQ.

    Operation and maintenance is a lot more complex than a DPSS. Most people completely bypass all the interlocks so you need to keep an eye on

    - water level
    - water temperature
    - water flow
    - water resistivity. The water circulating through the laser cavity is deionized (DI) so that is doesn't conduct electricity (otherwise it would short out the arclamp which will blow up your expensive PSU). There is a DI filter that keeps the water in good condition, but it wears out after a while. There is a sensor on the water reservior that you can measure the resistance. It will be around 18Mohm when new and you need to replace the filter when the resistance gets below 1Mohm. I'm working on an updated control box that will use the built-in sensors for all of these and shut the power supply down if any are bad.

    Also, the arclamp is good for 400 hours or so - less if you're running the thing balls out all the time. You really want to replace the lamp before it fails since they usually fail by exploding which will take out the flow tube at minimum and can damage the YAG rod and cavity which are hard to find and expensive. Lamp replacement is simple.

    Kevin

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad
    I was using these about 5 years ago when i ran the laser division for a fireworks company so i don't have them any more. I might have some pics not sure any more..

    If i were you i would just find the biggest Chinese dpss you can afford and go with those. The problem with newish laserist people ( and i mean this in the best possible way) is the big dick syndrome ( i am dealing with this for a client at this time). Everybody seems to think the only thing they need is more watts. They don't realize that time is money, ions and watter cooled stuff takes a lot longer to set up, is more fragile needs more power ( are you comfortable tying into 208 3 phase hot?). Watter leaks, freezing (at least here). If something breaks during a show it reflects bad on you. You won't get paid and now you have waisted all that time pissed off a client and have to pay for some big tweaky thing to be replaced. I m a firm believer in solid state pretty much being the only option to stay competitive in today's market.. If you were building a planetarium system and the laser never moved had power and water then an ion or other high maintenance laser makes sense, but not for road gigs.

    There is so much more to a good "production" than just brightness. I would much rather have multiple scan heads and lots of effects than one bright beam. Programing and performance ability vastly outweigh raw power.

    Just consider setup time, reliability, quality, professionalism, and value.

    .02c

    Chad
    Interesting post. We have been in this biz for the last 3-4 years or or so, starting out with predominantly Solid state and then getting an alc909 argon a couple years back. We've probably made more money with the small stuff than we have with the argon, but it's still handy to have for those odd shows where you do need something powerful.

    And we've had a few opportunities for outdoor parties, where 3 - 4 watts of argon just won't cut it... we're quite happy to tolerate the nuances of the laserscope if it means we can get more shows from it...

    We can't really justify spending 20K+ on a chinese yag just yet....
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  10. #20
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    Default Re: Laserscope KTP

    Quote Originally Posted by Junktronix
    Quote Originally Posted by aijii
    So... who on here has one of these ?

    got pics ? stories ? tips and tricks ? anything one should be aware of before a purchase?
    I had one here that I converted for show use and then sold since it's way more than I will ever need. I'll see if Ihave some pics to post. They're not nearly as scary or complex as most people make them out to be. They are fairly dangerous though since they are q-swiched and have a peak power near 20KW. I removed all the non-essential optics and was able to make a decent collimator using a couple of the lenses I pulled out. Ended up with a beam that easily fit on the 10mm mirrors on the Cambridge 6230 scanners I used and was probably around 2mrad divergence. They are multimode so that's probably the best divergence you can expect. With that much power (mine did 43W), the beam is still very visible even when it gets large.

    The a.l.e. arclamp power supply is reasonably well documented so I was able to build a control box that bypassed the built-in computer. You also need a KTP heater controller since the KTP needs to be heated for both efficiency and higher power handling (sounds strange, but KTP has a much higher damage threshold when kept hot).

    If you're looking for one, make sure it's not an early 700 series since those used a custom made arclamp PSU that's unreliable and expensive to replace / repair. Specifically, make sure you are getting the a.l.e. PSU. You may also want to get an 800 series with the internal heat exchanger. Otherwise you will need a source of running water or an external chiller for cooling. I think there is some more advice about picking a good unit in Sam's FAQ.

    Operation and maintenance is a lot more complex than a DPSS. Most people completely bypass all the interlocks so you need to keep an eye on

    - water level
    - water temperature
    - water flow
    - water resistivity. The water circulating through the laser cavity is deionized (DI) so that is doesn't conduct electricity (otherwise it would short out the arclamp which will blow up your expensive PSU). There is a DI filter that keeps the water in good condition, but it wears out after a while. There is a sensor on the water reservior that you can measure the resistance. It will be around 18Mohm when new and you need to replace the filter when the resistance gets below 1Mohm. I'm working on an updated control box that will use the built-in sensors for all of these and shut the power supply down if any are bad.

    Also, the arclamp is good for 400 hours or so - less if you're running the thing balls out all the time. You really want to replace the lamp before it fails since they usually fail by exploding which will take out the flow tube at minimum and can damage the YAG rod and cavity which are hard to find and expensive. Lamp replacement is simple.

    Kevin
    Cheers, a bit worrying about the arc lamp... do they have an hour meter ?
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