Greetings from NC

[samj435]

Hello,

I have been wandering around the web for some time researching lasers, and joined the forums a little while back but neglected to post anything. My name is Sam and I'm from Raleigh, North Carolina. I have no career in the industry, or even any history of working with lasers, but I do think they are "cool".

So what brings me to Photonlexicon? It's quite simple really. I'm one of those nut-jobs that put on the elaborate Christmas displays with the dancing lights. I come from the Do-It-Yourself side of things and spend all year building my own controller boards, along with all the other non-technical items. Recently many in that hobby are moving away from traditional lights and have started using newer RGB based intelligent lighting. While I have invested in some, it really isn't to my liking and I wanted to do something more interesting.

I have this idea to use a projection laser in my display for this coming year (yes, we all start very early). It is because of this that I am here. I have given this very careful consideration based on everything I have been able to find by reading around. With a large display, I already have to deal with many safety issues such as trip hazards (extension cords), and of course the high-amperage conditions that thousands of Incandescent lights bring with them. Lasers are a different beast, and require careful planning.

My goal would be to use a laser projector to create animations on the roof, and possibly the facade, of the house. Why the roof you might ask? It's simple really. With the projector mounted in a climate-controlled housing 12+ feet up a tree, I can get a good shot to the roof of the house. This solves the problems of:

• The projector being within easy reach of anyone
• The beams terminate onto a non-reflective structure
• The emissions from the aperture are kept above the heads of anyone that may wander into the yard
• The projector is facing AWAY from anyone viewing the display

The biggest issues I currently face are keeping everything legal. I don't want to be *that guy*, as it only takes one person to screw things up for everyone. While I do not operate my display for profit, as I understand things, outdoor laser operation would still require a Variance as well as FAA approval (or just non-objection, lol). I'm also at a loss when it comes to purchasing anything, as this is a completely new venture for me. Being an animation laser, it will have to be ILDA compatible, no questions about that. The problem is when it comes to analog vs TTL, different DAC's available, and even getting items that would meet the CDRH requirements. As I mentioned before I do build my own stuff, so building a scanner from scratch isn't out of the question.

I can't wait to get better acquainted with all of this, and get my hands on something to "play" with. As they say, the difference between men and boys is just the price of their "toys".

Sam

[VDX]

Hi Sam,

you can place a mirror in the tree, so the projector can stay inside the house, behind a window, so theft-safe and perfect climated ;-)

For security issues -- why not use a video-beamer? - they can 'simulate' a laser-show too ...

Viktor

[buffo]

Hi Sam;

Welcome to PhotonLexicon! If you want to learn about lasers and laser projectors, you've come to the right place.

You are very fortunate in that we have a few senior members who are very close to your location. DJMatt actually lives in Raleigh, and RGB-gas lives near Lexington. Either member would be an excellent resource for you.

Regarding your plan to use a projector in a Christmas display, while it sounds ambitious, it is certainly doable. The CDRH really doesn't have jurisdiction here, because it's on private property and there's no commerce involved, so you could use a home-built projector rather than a commercially-available one that has already been certified.

However, because it's an outdoor show (even though it will be fully-terminated), technically the FAA does still have authority. My advice would be to do your homework first regarding the proximity of nearby airports and then contact your local FAA representative. Ultimately, the proper thing to do would be to petition the FAA for a letter of non-objection for your display.

My guess is that this will not be a major problem, considering that it will likely be a low-power projector on private property and it's a fully-terminated show, but even so, it will be running unattended, and that often creates concerns for the FAA. They may want you to take extra safety measures to ensure no beams can stray into airspace. (Hard beam masks are a must in any event for this application.)

As for Viktor's idea to use a mirror in the tree, that would allow you to place the projector inside the house, but you would need a very large mirror in the tree (half the size of the final image on the roof). I'm not sure that would be practical.

Using a video projector is a great idea that does eliminate the concerns about using a laser projector outside, but to the best of my knowledge there is only one laser show software package (Pangolin's new Beyond software) that will allow you to display laser artwork on a video projector. If you already planned to go with Pangolin, this isn't an issue, but if you were considering some other software, this idea won't work.

Finally, even though it's 6 months away, I would encourage you to mark your calender now for the 6th annual South Eastern Laser Enthusiast's Meeting (SELEM), which will be held in Newton, NC on August 16-18. There will be laserists from all over the country present, and we will have multiple projectors set up in several areas. It's a 3-day laser-fest! Lots of cool people, lots of cool technology, and lots of fun! It's a great way to meet other laserists, and you'll come away with all kinds of ideas for future projects. Check out the "meet and greet" sub-forum and read up on some of the threads from past events...

Adam

[colouredmirrorball]

Your main problem might be cabling. If you use an ilda cable from your house you might get significant signal losses and interference. It might be a better option if you use an ethernet DAC. It depends on the distance between your house and the tree of course. Also with ethernet you could use wifi.

How do you control your system? MIDI? Are you familiar with OSC? There's a good ethernet DAC out there that can play ILDA files from an SD card, triggered by OSC commands. Though, it looks like you might need some DIY to make it work. Of course you could also control the DAC directly by a program.

[JohnYayas]

Hello,

I have been wandering around the web for some time researching lasers, and joined the forums a little while back but neglected to post anything. My name is Sam and I'm from Raleigh, North Carolina. I have no career in the industry, or even any history of working with lasers, but I do think they are "cool".

So what brings me to Photonlexicon? It's quite simple really. I'm one of those nut-jobs that put on the elaborate Christmas displays with the dancing lights. I come from the Do-It-Yourself side of things and spend all year building my own controller boards, along with all the other non-technical items. Recently many in that hobby are moving away from traditional lights and have started using newer RGB based intelligent lighting. While I have invested in some, it really isn't to my liking and I wanted to do something more interesting.

I have this idea to use a projection laser in my display for this coming year (yes, we all start very early). It is because of this that I am here. I have given this very careful consideration based on everything I have been able to find by reading around. With a large display, I already have to deal with many safety issues such as trip hazards (extension cords), and of course the high-amperage conditions that thousands of Incandescent lights bring with them. Lasers are a different beast, and require careful planning.

My goal would be to use a laser projector to create animations on the roof, and possibly the facade, of the house. Why the roof you might ask? It's simple really. With the projector mounted in a climate-controlled housing 12+ feet up a tree, I can get a good shot to the roof of the house. This solves the problems of:

• The projector being within easy reach of anyone
• The beams terminate onto a non-reflective structure
• The emissions from the aperture are kept above the heads of anyone that may wander into the yard
• The projector is facing AWAY from anyone viewing the display

The biggest issues I currently face are keeping everything legal. I don't want to be *that guy*, as it only takes one person to screw things up for everyone. While I do not operate my display for profit, as I understand things, outdoor laser operation would still require a Variance as well as FAA approval (or just non-objection, lol). I'm also at a loss when it comes to purchasing anything, as this is a completely new venture for me. Being an animation laser, it will have to be ILDA compatible, no questions about that. The problem is when it comes to analog vs TTL, different DAC's available, and even getting items that would meet the CDRH requirements. As I mentioned before I do build my own stuff, so building a scanner from scratch isn't out of the question.

I can't wait to get better acquainted with all of this, and get my hands on something to "play" with. As they say, the difference between men and boys is just the price of their "toys".

Sam

Hi Sam,

I am also in Raleigh. I built my own scanner and wrote my own software (Spaghetti). I'd be happy to show you what I have sometime. Send me a PM or write here.

[samj435]

Wow!

Do you ever have one of those days where you remember something that happened a while ago and you completely forgot about it? Yea.. my first post was one of those moments. I thought I would stop back by and get more involved at this point. This inspiration can be contributed to a trip to my local Spencer's store. They had a really cheap RGB laser scanner doing very simple images on the wall, such as a spinning globe.

The idea for a laser projector this year is out, but it's one of those ideas that takes hold in the back of your imagination and you will stop at nothing until at least a somewhat more realistic version of what you are thinking comes about. This means that yes, I will be getting an ILDA laser projector at some point within the next year once my wallet stops screaming from the constant purchase of Christmas supplies.

I thought I would provide an update as well as response to those who have commented to my first post. This year I am turning the front of the house into a large 550-inch projection screen. I will be taking a stab at "projection mapping", AKA incorporating video effects onto physical objects. This has solved the issues that would have been encountered with the laser such as any CDRH requirements, and any FAA issues. More importantly, some of the infrastructure to enable ILDA laser projection is being tested. A climate controlled enclosure has been built for the video projector, data and video signals are being delivered over Ethernet, the same one the rest of the show runs on. Full 720p HD video over the Ethernet is only taking up 15% of the available bandwidth on a 1gig Ethernet connection, so any ILDA data could easily use the same setup.

In response to VDX: A mirror wouldn't be a bad idea, you could theoretically get a convex mirror and that would distribute the image even wider once it hits it towards the roof. At that point, it would be fairly outlandish as image distortion would come into play and you would have to compensate for that before projecting. I'm also worried about the mirror becoming damaged and exposing the beams in the direction of the street where passing cars and visitors are.

For buffo: Yes, this whole idea is very ambitious, but something that I really want to do (It's better than pyrotechnics!). The CDRH and FAA rules are what I'm most concerned about. I don't want to have any issues with anyone. As you can imagine, there are always a Grinch waiting for you to slip up to get you shut down. It only takes 1 to end a display that puts smiles on 1,000's of faces. The main reason I signed up to this forum instead of others is because the maturity level here seems higher than most and legality issues are taken very seriously instead of being waved off. As for projecting "laser effects" with a video projector... it's another one of those great in theory ideas, but the size and cost of a projector to get the necessary lumen's for that would not be something I could use. A $500 china laser would produce better images in terms of brightness. That little "flicker" I'd get would be the "yea, It's a real laser projector" statement that would make me feel all warm and childish on the inside, realizing my accomplishment. It's also a good thing I'm not too late for SELEM. I'll look more into that to see if it's something I can attend. I would love to see some of these machines up-close and personal to get a better idea of it all.

For colouredmirrorball: As I stated above, Ethernet is the solution. I currently control the majority of my show using a combination of E1.31 (DMX over Ethernet), and standard DMX512 as the lighting protocol. OSC commands are coming into play this year with the addition of the projector for inter-software communications. There is a separate software for the lights as there is for video. It's all run by a third software that does all the timings and music broadcasting. I would use yet another program for any ILDA outputs to send the commands from the master computer. I feel as if this is the way to go as shows can become more interactive over time. Check-in on Foursquare or Facebook and have your name show up in lasers on the roof of the house? How cool would that be!

For JohnYayas: I think that's very amazing that you did all that from scratch. I too wouldn't mind making my own scanner, but a program too? That's impressive.

[djmatt]

Im in Raleigh NC!!!

[JohnYayas]

Im in Raleigh NC!!!

We'll have to have a mini-lem.

[hakzaw1]

SAM-----

We all would like to meet you and discuss all this and more--but in person.
Take the advice from Adam and come to the SELEM meet in August.

The best time to get there would be on the morning of Aug 15th
that is the day most of the set up happens - and we always welcome more help.
I can promise you this: you will not want to miss another...
You will also want to be in the main auditorium on Sat at 5PM because that is about the time the door prizes are given out-must be there to win. You might win a laser that you could use for your Xmas display.


For almost all of us the cost to travel is the biggest amount- you are located in a great place to be driving from..

hope to see you there-Len

[djmatt]

We'll have to have a mini-lem.

Ive got 6 projectors!!lol