Club show in NY, audience scanning info

[Giacopin]

Hello everyone

i have my 1W RGB that i am bringing to a club in a few weeks, dance floor is 65 foot long, x 32feet large.I would say about 300 ppl will attend the party. I am planning to put the laser over the head of the dj and my plan was also to do a bit of audience scanning.

I am playing with it in my house now in a room that is 26x26 feet and i watched the laser in action putting myself as i was the audience(i was wearing sunglasses just as precaution) and the lights didn't bother my eyes at all.

Now, i start reading about the safety measures that need to be take and the potential risk of the lasers. but one thing that i am reading and is really warning me is this statement from FDA :

FDA should be notified in
writing of all shows at least 1
month in advance. When this
is not possible bcause of last
minute scheduling, FDA
should be notified by tele-
phone as soon as possible and
then a written confirmation
should be sent to FDA.
Anyone who operates laser
light shows without an approv-
ed FDA variance or who other-
wise violates the FDA laser safe-
ty standard may be subject to a
court injunction andlor civil
penalties (fines up to $300,000)
as provided for in Section 360C
of the Radiation Control for
Health and Safety Act. When
FDA becomes aware of a par-
ticular laser show that is
operated in violation of the law
or otherwise in an irresponsible
fashion, FDA will notify the
manufacturer or operator and
require corrective action. If the
problem is serious, FDA will
also notify the State and local
authorities and facility
managers who can take addi-
tional, immediate legal steps to
halt a hazardous show.

Also i am reading around website and forum(but didn't find any official documents from any authorities ) that audience scanning in the US is completely illegal... is this true?

Thank you
Gianluca

[gottaluvlasers]

Few Things- (just facts, im *NOT* trying to sound like a dick)

1) You need to have a variance to perform crowd scanning. I am assuming you do not.
2) You need to have a variance and certified Laser system to use in public in the USA. I am assuming you do not.
3) Crowd scanning in the USA is *NOT* illegal. It is just very difficult to perform within regulated safety parameters and even more difficult to gain approval to do so.
4) To use Laser(s) in New York, you need to have a Class B operators license per code rule 50 of the NYS dept of Labor. I am assuming you do not.
5) To use Lasers(s) in New York you need to have said Lasers registered with the NYS dept of Labor ($600 per Laser per every 3 years). I am assuming you do not.

These are just a few of the "legalities" of your inquiry. If you have more questions, feel free to ask and/or contact me privately.

-Marc

[Laser Wizardry]

" 15 characters"

[White-Light]

Just to add to what's been said above:

1. Sunglasses won't protect your eyes against laser light. They're primarily designed to filter out UV not visible light wavelength and in any case even if broad spectrum, they lack the necessary OD (optical density) for a Class IV laser. If anything they could even make the situation worse by dilating your pupils wider and thus letting in even more light.

2. The fact that the laser didn't bother your eyes means nothing. There are no pain sensors in the retina of the eye so you never feel if damage is being done. Equally the brain can compensate for damage that is done. Its only when you happen across a certain set of circumstances such as looking at a monochromatic background that you might suddenly notice spots in your vision (unless of course the damage is so severe as to affect your eyesight to the point where the brain doesn't compensate it ordinary circumstances.

To audience scan safely you need a lot of very very expensive test equipment and a lot of knowledge to use it.

Then of course in the USA, you also need all of the permits.

If you don't know how to do it safely and legally then in a nutshell don't. It could cost you dearly both in federal fines and in compensation claims.

[White-Light]

If I ever need a reminder about safety I look at this:




Those burns are what my 2.1 W laser did to 18mm chip board in between 1-2 seconds exposure on those points from a static non modulated beam. Some are deep enough to actually feel craters in the surface of the wood, they're not just surface burns.

[Giacopin]

OMG

Well, first of all thank you guys!

I bought the laser just to add some some effects to the venue where i usually promote events and actually the guy who sold it to me recommended me to buy 2 of them ( i luckily bought only one)

I didn't read anything before because i am fully aware that a laser could be harmful but i had no idea that even a 1W could be harmful in a club that can host 300+ppl. I also didn't read anything because i know ppl who use laser 3x that power in clubs not really bigger then the one where i do my events.

You guys are opening me a new world now....

Can i still use it without doing audience scanning though? Do i need license also for that?

Thank you
G

[norty303]

To audience scan safely you need a lot of very very expensive test equipment

Aside from this part, I would agree with most things that have been said.

Although I guess if you are using a cheap Chinese projector, even the parts to make a pulse meter might be considered expensive.

The most expensive part in all of this is the knowledge. You will need to invest a LOT of time reading, researching and asking questions, and probably some money in getting trained/certified too.

[norty303]

Can i still use it without doing audience scanning though? Do i need license also for that?

I'm not in the US, but as far asI understand it you need a show variance and the projector needs a product variance before you can use it at an event.
In NY (as Karl has already mentioned) you need to jump through a few more hoops too.

[Bradfo69]

Yes, what Norty said is correct. In the US, you as the operator have to have a show variance obtainable from the CDRH (dividion of the FDA) and, your projector itself needs to have a product variance, meaning that they have approved it for use with an audience. (Not audience scanning... just in public.) You may use your projector in the comfort of your own home but, once you take it out in public, you ARE opening yourself up to a lot of expensive potential legal and safety issues. Yes, people do risk it and yes, people do get their equipment confiscated and receive fines, etc. And, you are in a much more "laser aware" state with being in New York. Ignorance of the laws doesn't hold up in court or, mean that fines don't occur.

Sorry. Nobody is trying to be a dick here. Just trying to make you aware of the realities and what you need to do. If it's something you want to pursue, this is a great bunch of people to help you reach that goal. It's just not an overnight process.

[Giacopin]

Yes, what Norty said is correct. In the US, you as the operator have to have a show variance obtainable from the CDRH (dividion of the FDA) and, your projector itself needs to have a product variance, meaning that they have approved it for use with an audience. (Not audience scanning... just in public.) You may use your projector in the comfort of your own home but, once you take it out in public, you ARE opening yourself up to a lot of expensive potential legal and safety issues. Yes, people do risk it and yes, people do get their equipment confiscated and receive fines, etc. And, you are in a much more "laser aware" state with being in New York. Ignorance of the laws doesn't hold up in court or, mean that fines don't occur.

Sorry. Nobody is trying to be a dick here. Just trying to make you aware of the realities and what you need to do. If it's something you want to pursue, this is a great bunch of people to help you reach that goal. It's just not an overnight process.

I understand, i absolutely do not think that u guys are trying to be dick and i appreciate everything that you are saying to me, again thank you for warning me about all of these issues.

It just sounds a little bit too much..... there are hundreds of people in NY who rent lasers and i am not talking about random people found on craiglist. I am talking about shops, lights rental shop that gives lasers even without someone that can control it. On craigslist is plenty of guys that offers lasershows for club night, weddings and all kind of parties.... i am wondering if all of them have their variances and are paying the 600$ each 3 years for having it.

Honestly i don't think that 1 of the people that i know that is doing this is even aware of all those law and regulations...maybe...like me...they always thought that they are carrying around just a light.