US Projector Regs

[andy_con]

im probably going to post this then just take a back seat and read the replies that come in.

has anyone seen the new moncha.net?

http://www.showtacle.com/products/moncha-net

looks pretty good, what are peoples views on this standing up to US safety regs?

[Bradfo69]

I've not actually seen the Moncha.net DAC in person but what I can basically tell you is this. I have both Moncha 2.0 and Fiesta 2 from Showtacle and have had a number of discussions with Michal. I've been very pleased with their hardware and the company. I would expect Moncha.net to be of top quality. I'd love to get their Fiesta.net product but at $4500... it's not a quick decision. There are a ton of nice shows already out there for Moncha so if you're into canned shows, it's a good value. Now... on the software side of things, what I will tell you is that Moncha is no where near as robust or feature laden as Quickshow. I find it to be very rudementary and there are a lot of things I wished it contained that Quickshow already has. Basic stuff like easier ability to control zone sizes and, even some pre included test frames. It's a bit of a pain to set up for a show in the US because I haven't found a way to map out a projection area to ensure it doesn't go into the audience without playing the show several times and finding the spot at which the beams are lowest and raise everything up. The tricky part is it may be different for the next show. There may be an easy way to do it but, I haven't found it yet.

I've said this before that, when demonstrating and "selling" the idea of a laser show to clients, I almost always have used Moncha. The shows available for it are current and look great. On the day of the event however, I always use Pangolin products for their actual show since I'm playing live along with a DJ to which Quickshow, BEYOND and LivePro are better suited.

As far as US regs... I don't know that there is any stipulations about what software or hardware you're using to control the lasers... or whether you're using ILDA cable or CAT5/6, just the (probably redundant) ability to shut them off quickly.

[andy_con]

bradders i think you are missing my point. click on that link and watch the video.

showtacle are offering moncha.net with a load of safety features for a good price. so im wondering how well the safety features stand up to the us regs

[andy_con]

ok i take back what i jsut said, they seem to have changed the video.

this is the one i was refering to

http://www.showtacle.com/palmexpo/co...20e02-30252357

[Bradfo69]

Humm... watched the second video and perhaps I'm not getting the jist of your question. The video above seems to be more geared towards saving money by having features such as an SD card, DMX and LCD screen all built into one device inside the projector. I don't seen them talking about additional safety measures or anything. It seems to be more ease of use. I'm not certain where this would be a problem in a US rig. I'm sure there may be objections to controlling a laser with DMX or the fact that an SD card is built in. I think they'd want an operator to be in control versus an autoplay type situation. I also don't know if the DMX protocol offers enough ability to faultlessly be able to shut off the laser either.

We probably need someone with a little more working knowledge of what the CDRH likes and doesn't like, based on their past experience and discussions, to chime in - mixedgas, slicklasers, dsli_jon, x-laser, etc.

[mixedgas]

One, the gradient feature would help you in Canada, but not the US. It is not a scanning safeguard, able to monitor the output energy of the laser. So there goes "legal" audience scanning in a venue with just that. Although I like the feature and feel it has a place in the market. The US system places the Quality Control duties on the operator at setup and during the show.

Two, You would have to be the first person to prove that the DMX link failure or Ethernet link failure causes the laser projector to extinguish to some reasonable standard, say five or six sigma reliability , ie one 15 minute failure in one year of operation. That would be a expensive test. Proving that said link worked as well as a hard wired shutter. ie the Failsafe concept, proving that in software malfunction or partial link failure, the operator still has control or the system will extinguish itself.

Three, In a varianced system, the last thing you want to do is define that your projector only works with ONE software based controller for the keyswitch. You would declare it as a optional control box and have to include a partial schematic, and hopefully the keyswitch is not tied to the microprocessor in any way. If your Moncha stopped working, and it was the sole controller, you would have to amend your variance for a new controller. Traditionally we define the controller as just black box with a keyswitch and shutter switch loop in it.

ILDA cables with the shutter loop inherently comply with the US traditional standards, that is why those two pins are there.

I like the gradient, and were I doing something illegal and un-tested in terms of audience scanning I'd be darn glad to have it. Keep in mind a power reduction of a few binary steps out of 255 available levels per color does not always do something meaningful for a given effect, you still need to measure or calculate the exposure to the audience.

The DMX standard as issued specifically prohibits safety of life uses of DMX, including pyro and motion control.

Nice way to sneak in a subtle advert for Moncha, but this is not Earth shattering.


Steve

[andy_con]

I hear what your saying steve thanks for the info, just a tad more info.

moncha.net has interlock built in and if the Ethernet cable is disconnected the laser output stops after 3 seconds.

[mixedgas]

3 secs is far too long.

Steve

[andy_con]

That's what I thought

[andy_con]

ok so lets put something else out there.

the US regs require a old and out dated shutter to be installed in a projector.

would a safety board with built in shutter which would be 1000000000000000000's of times faster than a moving shutter meet the regs?