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Thread: "Beauty Lasers" on ebay!!! What?

  1. #31
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    I am forced to argee with Eric here. The hot coffee lawsuit, the lawsuits against the railroad because people were able to defeat the train barriers which were clearly warning about an oncoming train.... How much freedom do we limit to ensure that people are safe? We set up so many barriers to make sure people keep themselves safe and at the same time we dull the public into depending on others for our own safety instead of ourselves. Not that I would but I can't ride a motorcycle and let the wind blow through my hair without getting a ticket. I can't buy my kid a happy meal in San Fran because any meal over x calories that comes with a toy is banned, the ridiculous soda law in New York, marijuana. All of these things are limiting personal freedoms so that people don't hurt themselves.

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    If you're the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room.

  2. #32
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    Lol at the sharp edges sign.

    I gotta say, working in the medical field, we have doctors and specialist working for us that just make everything worse and forget what the point was anyways.

    That said I don't want a Therac-25 (gosh what a fail), a laser scope or a china tattoo removal machine used on me without a very qualified technician. I actually would let someone like Mixedgas remove a tattoo of mine if he felt like he could do the job with the machine at hand. The problem is, how many people are that qualified.

  3. #33
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    Wasnt the LaserScope we all love removed from the market because of the shots being a little to hot most of the time?

  4. #34
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    Oh god, that sign, where did you get that?

    I actually would let someone like Mixedgas remove a tattoo of mine if he felt like he could do the job with the machine at hand.
    I know. And would you do that because he is a licensed physician or because you in YOUR JUDGEMENT trust his experience and judgement.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm a libertarian and not anarchist. Some rules and some limitations are fine, but the inexorable march from a constitutional republic to a stifling bureaucracy over the last 200 years has had no reset, in other words no swing in the pendulum. What we do here is exotic and arguably not in the general public interest. Why not restrict all laser products over 3mw and all electronic devices that contain in excess of 36V DC? How about any free standing computers that would enable independent encryption algorithms? We need to stop encouraging these intrusions by rationalizing with the "if it will save just one life " then anything goes.

    There...now I feel better.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picasso View Post
    Wasnt the ..... from the market because of the shots being a little to hot most of the time?
    No, afaik, it's more because the flashlamp-tech / psu's are old-gen tech.. Those 'attenuation-sections' were pretty-well dialed-in.. and, 'hot' is less the issue (ie: with the newer-Gen 'Greenlights' kicking-out up-to 120W of 532 *at the fiber tip* (!!) it's more about 'control'... which is what I (think) you were ref'ing, but.. Nah, those '800s', etc are just aging / expensive-tech to fix...
    Well, at least that's what LS / AMS-tell the Docs (..so they can 'oh, btw..'-them into another $130K contract..

    Quote Originally Posted by planters View Post
    ... We need to stop encouraging these intrusions by rationalizing with the "if it will save just one life " then anything goes.
    Well, yes and no.. Totally with ya on the 'NO MOAR LIFE/RECTAL-EXAM AGENCIES' etc, but.. 'total-deregulation' does not seem a better-answer, either.. ie: (..since we're chatting in hyperbole, anyway.. Should an 8 yr old kid have the right to walk into a Walmart, and buy a (real) .357? Yes! ..but, should he be *allowed* to? Well, we probably-agree on the 'sane' answer - which has nothing to do with (just) 'his numerical-age'.

    ..this is why I more-favor focusing on being / encouraging responsible sellers - if more sellers would *actually check* that the people they are selling-to are *qualified* to buy.. ie: the '8 yr old kid' - sure, there are, indeed, 8 yr old kids 'qualified' to shoot a .357 (from training + experience..) but, that certainly should be 'vetted' before a sale..That would certainly help the conundrum.

    ..But, by the same token, there are some 'Regs' that do, indeed, make sense to have in-place / attempt to encourage-use thru enforcement (ie: seat-belts..) so that there is *some* sort of '1st-level safety-net'.. Although, with the level of enforcement, the Gov's 'net' is about as effective as a tennis-net for catching flys .. but, as I always hawk - 'ya gotta try', ya?...
    Generally, 'moar-mayhem' is not very-constructive... we've all seen the 'Zombiepocalypse' flix..

    Dos pesos..
    j
    Last edited by dsli_jon; 08-10-2013 at 08:50. Reason: sp
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  6. #36
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    Jon,

    Careful not to fall into the "here's a straw man" watch me hit this outta the park. The whole area of what a minor vs what a free adult is permitted or restricted from muddies the water.

    Seat belts are one of my big pet peeves. How dare a regulatory AGENCY fine me for not protecting myself with a seat belt when it allows another to wrap his body around a thousand pound Harley Davidson loaded with hot, metallic and in some cases very sharp points. The same 30MPH impact that might dislocate my shoulder, requires the EMS to gather the pieces of the motorcycle driver. This is illogical, but it occurs because the agency realizes there are too many motorcycle owners out there to successfully outlaw motorcycles. So, with their tennis racquets waving uselessly they swat at butterflies rather than be seen as ineffective.

    The "moar-mayhem" you mention is actually a result of this bureaucracy run amok. Cradle to the grave social well fair, no dads and flash mobs running rampant. Fanny and Freddy involved in 90% of private mortgages and told "spread the American Dream" and you get the housing collapse. The Fed "regulating", but actually printing worthless money, loaning it to a few fat banks and then buying it back and you have real 10%+ inflation despite what is spun by our "leaders". And how about those "just keep flushing it 'll all go down eventually" 16oz toilets. Hmmm?

    The individual, the adult individual, with a few obvious exceptions is the best one to judge what risks to take and if the rewards justify those risks. I am not promoting Hobbes' state of nature, just that we got awfully far with much less of this intrusion and I believe our national decline parallels this growing transfer of authority.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsli_jon View Post
    Well, yes and no.. Totally with ya on the 'NO MOAR LIFE/RECTAL-EXAM AGENCIES' etc, but.. 'total-deregulation' does not seem a better-answer, either..
    I don't think total de-reg is a perfect answer but it is an answer. I gotta be honest, I think people, en-masse are much better off when they are self regulated when it comes to being safe. Personal safety is our own responsibility. Regarding the topic of the OP, if I ever wanted to get any of my tattoos removed, I am going to research where I go. I am not going to go to some fly-by-night, Dr. Cool's Ultra Rad Tattoo Removal Clinic for $59.99. There is something wrong there. It was the same exact thing when I got my tattoos in the first place. I spent a lot of time scoping out tattoo parlours and I paid top dollar. The reason being, Dr. Cool's Ultra Rad Tattoo Removal Clinic is probably using one of these POS devices. I, too, get tired of the lackadaisical approach people have in any endeavour because they depend on the fact that someone or something has been put in place to ensure safety rather than inpsecting it themselves. "Surely it must be safe to step off a moving tram to get a dropped item, Disney would have made sure it was safe. Oops, it wasn't, damn them, I am going to sue their asses off!". "Water on the floor, let me step there because if there is no sign that says 'slippery when wet', it must be safe."

    Sure, we may lose some people on the way and anyone here can damn me for uttering the word "eugenics" but honestly, the gene pool could do with a bit o chlorine. The more regs we have, the more it costs us and the more like cattle we become. Just sayin.

    For the record, I had a sweet .22 Ruger when I was 8! Sure, it wasn't a .357 but I think about it now, people shit a brick if a kid shows up somewhere with a squirt gun. I think I had better gun sense at 8 than some idiot adults now!
    If you're the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by planters View Post
    ...Careful ..The whole area of what a minor vs what a free adult is permitted or restricted from muddies the water.
    Agreed, which is precisely-why I said: "..which has nothing to do with (just) 'his numerical-age'' ..Point-being, the '8 yr old kid' was just 'hyperbole', for an (by 'default settings') inexperienced-person.. You could use the same-example with an adult. ie: how may 'adults' have been-killed (or killed others..) by shooting off a machine-gun, when they had no-idea / training / experience, etc, of how to properly-handle it.. ie: I recall some (relatively-recent..) news-clip about some guy in (some other country) that was 'all-excited about getting married', so he decides to 'celebrate' by grabbing a nearby Ak-47 (or whatever it was..) to blow a few celebratory-rounds into the air, and - promptly loses-control of it, blowing away (iirc) his bride, father, uncle, etc, etc - whoever it was.. Wedding: slightly-ruined. Would 'regs' have saved the idiots' family? No, of course not.. but, I'm simply clarifying - wasn't making the 'point' based-on minors vs adults..

    ..Point being, I am far-more a proponent of *education over regulation* - and the *sellers* should be part and parcel of that 'education-process' - interestingly, just like Laser Notice 51 says, '[rationale for dealers / sellers-needing a Variance.] This requirement ensures that awareness of laser light show radiation safety and protection practices and regulatory requirements are transferred from one variance holder to the next.' but, it only 'works' if everyone does their part..

    ..I can get behind 'justifications for grey-areas' involving personal self / home-use for laser-systems, but.. just can't agree to such 'laissez faire' being applied to shytely-made medical laser-products being promoted for skin-treatments... *just-like*, yeah, I can get-behind a 'Reg' that prevents the sale of a 357 to an *inexperienced* shooter, regardless of age.. And - NO - I am NOT making any 'anti-gun rights' arguments, and YES, I KNOW, 'lasers don't kill', etc - I am just using those as 'hyperbolic examples' of a "dangerous item" to make the points about the criticalness of *education* / experience, in all this.. imho.

    Quote Originally Posted by planters View Post
    Seat belts are one of my big pet peeves. How dare a regulatory AGENCY fine me for not protecting myself...
    Absolutely! But... seeing as how all that (ironically..) 'separates us from death' / injury as we drive down the road, daily - are two painted yellow stripes??! - you're not glad that it's a regulation that they *be-there* in the car?? I am! Yeah, 'enforcement is a tennis-racket' - agreed - not very-effective against 'educating' the person as-to 'what will happen to their body when they slam into the steering-wheel' - at even low-speeds, etc.. But.. Perhaps instead of a 'educationally-useless / Gov-coiffers-only-serving fine', every 'ticket' - won you 'another ticket', to spend 2 hrs watching 'crash-movies' / accident shots, etc.. Well.. better? <shrugs>

    ..but - tying it back to this whole thread - having 'Regs' to at least (attempt) to curb-sales of unsafe crap like this boo-boo box, here - Like the 'Reg' to *have* a seat-belt (safety-device) in a saleable-car - at least is that '1st-level layer', whereupon (hopefully...) the 'Resellers' would only, in-fact, sell to *qualified* / experienced buyers (much-like you must earn / get a license to drive (legally / not get penalized / arrested..), and - the end user, would (hopefully) be 'responsible', and get-educated / trained for using such a system - before - going and taking pepls $$ to 'open a tat-removal shop' - OR, a 'laser light show Co', etc..

    ...Nonetheless, I think we're pretty-much on the 'same page' with the whole 'state of the union'.. best summed up: >_<

    Quote Originally Posted by planters View Post
    ..The individual ...is the best one to judge what risks to take and if the rewards justify those risks.
    I agree - provided that - that 'individual' has a clue.

    Gotta run.. Nice 'fencing' with you.
    ciao
    j
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  9. #39
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    While we are at it, why don't we all just leave our doors unlocked and trust that people will be honest!!

    Planters-

    Seat belts save lives, this is a fact, which translates into lower insurance premiums. When I was 19 years old I flipped my dads Mustang 4 times when I failed to make a corner (yes, I was speeding) and after it stopped moving I unbelted myself and walked away; I for one, am glad that there is a seat belt law. I also laid down a motorcycle at 130+ mph (at a racetrack) , and walked away from that; my helmet saved my life, and my leathers saved my skin.

    Maybe all of you hang out with smarter, soberer people than I do, because I for one support a fair amount of the regulations that are in place.

  10. #40
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    Having spent years caring for a diabetic parent and a parent in a nursing home, plus supporting medical research, I learned things about medicine I never wanted to know. One of them is I would never second guess or attempt to be a physician.

    I have over ruled medical staff with regards to myself and my family. Only when they were about to do something obvious and stupid. ERs and nursing homes are some what prone to those kinds of incidents. I've spent way too much time dealing with both. I carefully research what they advise, and I do get second opinions.

    I would act to save your life with basic first aid. However I'm not into mole zapping. Well outside my field. Deciding what to zap is best left to someone with 10 years of medical school with the internship. While holding a license and affiliated with a hospital. I urge others to do the same, and avoid the unlicensed quacks out there.

    So thank you for your kind words. Except for extreme emergencies, I don't even think about doing the Doctor thing.

    I used to be qualified to spin up a CT machine, for testing and repair. Just because I have generated X-rays, does not mean I can take a CT of a human.

    My childhood physician, upon learning I was playing with lasers, actually made me promise never to zap my moles or freckles, back in 1988. He then explained why. So I got one heck of a laugh out of that post. Somehow I don't think the little HeNe was up to the task. :-)

    Steve.

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