Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 79

Thread: DAC & Software Choices..... getting harder the more I read!

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    My momentum is too precisely determined :S
    Posts
    1,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by White-Light View Post
    Ultimately the choice is going to be yours and one of where your priorities lie. Alternatively, you could just do both as many others have!
    Nope. You can't do both, and that's not LSX's fault.

    What I think is the most unique feature in LSX is the ability to adjust effects in real time, using real time input. For example you can modulate the amplitude of a sine wave with the y-position of your mouse, or a midi controller. Much more can be done, and I'm always finding surprising new ways to do stuff. I'm not sure how far pangoscript goes in this way. In any case, this only works in Beyond which is, again, an order of magnitude more expensive than LSX.

    Yes, LSX abstracts require math. But you don't need to be a math wizard to create stunning images. I believe Swamidog just starts with the built-in abstract generator, then adds morphings and rotations until he achieves a nice result. As far as I know, he doesn't make use of math directly. That being said, if you know the maths behind abstract images, you can do amazing stuff.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex, England
    Posts
    5,248

    Default

    Al, Steve isn't referring to Pangoscript (which is developing a LOT, but is more to do with runnng scripts within the application), I believe he's refrring to what has been discussed a few times regarding the Beyond SDK, which allows addresing of the FB3, but is so far proving to be an elusive beast despite myself being told some timne ago that it exists, and have been offered support with it.

    Regarding stability, in my experience LSX is very stable software.
    I wasn't referring to the stability of the software, when I previously mentioned stability

    What I think is the most unique feature in LSX is the ability to adjust effects in real time, using real time input.
    It's not unique. Beyond has channels which are controls that can be bound to parameters (such as sine wave amplitude). You can then bind that channel to a midi control, mouse, or a range of modulation sources, including other channels, etc...

    Not trying to start a pissing contest (god knows we have enough of those) but just trying to provide an objective overview for the OP, so he doesn't think he HAS to have LSX to do certain things that are capable in other applications.

    In fact, if we all avoid using words like 'unique' unless we know for sure a certain feature IS unique, we can avoid everyone who uses their choice of software for whatever reason having to clarify details

    Nope. You can't do both, and that's not LSX's fault.
    Sorry, I don't understand. Why can't the OP buy both LSX and Pangolin? AFAIK Pangolin doesn't [yet] actively prevent any other laser software being within 5 metres of it does it?
    Frikkin Lasers
    http://www.frikkinlasers.co.uk

    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    5,704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post
    Al, Steve isn't referring to Pangoscript (which is developing a LOT, but is more to do with runnng scripts within the application), I believe he's refrring to what has been discussed a few times regarding the Beyond SDK, which allows addresing of the FB3, but is so far proving to be an elusive beast despite myself being told some timne ago that it exists, and have been offered support with it.
    Ah Ok I misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post
    Sorry, I don't understand. Why can't the OP buy both LSX and Pangolin? AFAIK Pangolin doesn't [yet] actively prevent any other laser software being within 5 metres of it does it?
    I concur, I understand many people have both the FB3 and Etherdream, and your computer doesn't eat itself if you buy both. (As with everything laser though, you're wallet might.)

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    My momentum is too precisely determined :S
    Posts
    1,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by norty303 View Post



    Sorry, I don't understand. Why can't the OP buy both LSX and Pangolin? AFAIK Pangolin doesn't [yet] actively prevent any other laser software being within 5 metres of it does it?
    Because you can't control an FB3 with other software, and Pangolin doesn't control other's hardware. So if you decide to opt for Pangolin, you are bound to your FB3's. If you ever decide to not use Pangolin, you need extra DACs. On the other hand, a lot of DACs are much cheaper than an FB3, so it's a bit of a shame to buy the expensive gear for all your lasers. Especially since the FB3 isn't quite comparable to, say, an etherdream (while it is twice as expensive?). Running two pieces of software at the same time is less than optimal. (Yes, I'm aware of the mysterious Beyond sdk, and that Pangolin software will probably run on Phoenix controllers in the future (?), but that is beside the point).


    I did not know that you can use live input as parameters in Beyond. That's good to know. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Beyond is bad software. I even think it is better than LSX in some points, for example the 3D capabilities in Beyond Ultimate sound like something that's really advanced. LSX can't do that (or at least not out of the box). But Beyond Ultimate is $4995, while LSX Pro is $349. That is insane! Just looking at the features of Beyond and looking at what LSX can do, I just can't understand why it has to be so expensive.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brno, CZ / Povazska Bystrica, SK
    Posts
    491

    Default

    Swami surely doesn't use heavy math to create those wonderful abstracts. Remember his patented method is "mashing the buttons until pretty light comes out™".

    The choice of software really only depends on your needs. Pangolin offers huge library of pre-made content but it's mostly useless for a creative show. Usually when you get creative, you want to create your own content anyway.

    As for abstracts just to refine on this capability in Moncha/Fiesta, there is no abstract generator but some abstract-like effects can be done using the provided "Multi" node type from simple shapes using simple transformations. It's not as sophisticated though.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    1,279

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steviobee View Post
    I had similar choices for similar reasons, although I'm still at the Quickshow stage with an FB3, a possible Beyond upgrade at some point? I also bought an easylase off ebay for use with Lasercam. They sometimes come up quite cheap...
    I was planning on avoiding buying cheaper stuff, purely from past experience with anything technical - having it breakdown or not being up to the job. I have recently bought some cheap TTL RGB projectors and even straight out of the box I am experiencing problems (x axis on one jumps about an inch at 10m, DB25 pillars all lose, so come off on cable etc.)
    How do you find the easylase with Lasercam? I imagine with my current projectors, DAC quality won't make a huge difference, although they do need all the help they can get!



    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    The lack of a SDK for FB3 is the issue why Qm2000 is accessible and FB3 is not.
    There is a SDK for the Qm2000

    Its really not in Pangolin's interest to release a SDK for FB3

    There is supposed to be a scripting language coming forth, according to one Pangolin fan, but as yet it is not used or widely available. This would allow "calling" the FB3 from a program by passing text commands, if it is anything like past Pangolin scripting.

    The above mere statements will start a painful set of posts from Pangolin's closest supporters, and LSX or Open File supporters who argue Pangolin does not allow certain kinds of ILDA file export, so just let it be...


    Pangolin comes with at least 20 years of clip-art and stock shows, so they have a good reason for locking content. The counter argument is you may not be able to export content you create with your Pangolin, except to another Pangolin user.

    Apples and Oranges to me, I now own both, and had working Qm16s for many years.

    My inventory includes RIYA, QM2000, and Etherdream, although I have not got around to using the later.

    Steve
    Thanks Steve. I understand the reasons behind locking down although I am a fan of open source and the benefits it brings to the end user.

    I'll do more research before I make any decisions and may go the cheap DAC route just to get me going with LSX and put more consideration into the live show side of things. I've never seen Moncha, Fiesta or Phoenix in use and would like to make a more informed choice.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    My momentum is too precisely determined :S
    Posts
    1,777

    Default

    I can vouch for the Easylase DAC. They're basic and decent DACs, firmly built. New they are fairly expensive, in the same price range as an Etherdream. I can run mine for hours without any problems.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    5,704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dzodzo View Post

    The choice of software really only depends on your needs. Pangolin offers huge library of pre-made content but it's mostly useless for a creative show. Usually when you get creative, you want to create your own content anyway.
    Oh dear. This is turning into a mud slinging match....but without going down that path, all I can say is clearly you haven't used / seen the tools for cue or 2D and 3D creation in Beyond.

    I have little doubt that when you get down to the math, you can do some more complex abstract effects in LSX, but that doesn't mean the Pangolin Abstract Editor isn't comprehensive esepcially once you realise the ability to use synths and the generator together, and as for other content....there's a 2D draw programme which includes automated animation tools (2D frame creator), full 3D editor / creator which is a very well featured 3D programme, synth creator, shape creator, text creator, clock creator, abstract creator, write out creator, all of which can either edit or create from scratch. Unlike QS there are no limitations. What more exactly do you want on the creation side and what are these other programmes that have more creation tools?

    Then on the creative live side there's a whole host of live effects that go beyond any other manufacturers laser programme that I've seen and then scripting, the latter of which virtually has no limits in creation. Then there's a very comprehensive time line and a playlist feature that lets you get creative with the playback of your shows plus VLJ.

    Plus there's the Universe and other features which I won't go into here. Needless to say there's lots of options to get creative.

    At the end of the day its horses for courses but I've yet to hear anyone with Beyond say they'd swap it for LSX or any other non Pangolin programme. A few like both which is fair enough as then you have the strongest features of each available.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    East Sussex, England
    Posts
    5,248

    Default

    I think you're being over defensive Al. Dzodzo is quite correct that most of the pre-made content is a bit naff, but I don't think he was suggesting that you can't create it effectively in Beyond yourself... only that you may be paying a premium for something you don't use.

    In fact, I do't think anyone has yet said Beyond is bad, just that its expensive compared to some other options, which is also true, but at the same time, its also cheaper than some others.
    Frikkin Lasers
    http://www.frikkinlasers.co.uk

    You are using Bonetti's defense against me, ah?

    I thought it fitting, considering the rocky terrain.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    5,704

    Default

    I read it differently...internet and all that. I read Beyond as being pretty useless for a creative show.. I see how Dzodo meant content being..... Well that's fair comment. Probably a personal view as I'm sure not everyone finds it useless. However if you're unhappy with suppplied cue content that why not let Pangolin know exactly how that content can be altered to provide more of what you do want? They usually listen and I'm all for more content!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •