confused about software/DAC requirements of laser projectors

[oleger]

I use LSX with Riya DAC for the production of graphic show. I also use drlava's ild sos to convert graphics from 3d max.

Another graphic LSX show:

[colouredmirrorball]

It is clear that Swami, Coloured Mirror Ball and others, here and there, are being successful and having fun with LSX. That is not a question. But to me the biggest question is one of "scale". If 100 people were to get both software packages, how many out of the 100 will be successful, and how quickly? To me that's a huge question! During the learning curve, certain people are going to get discouraged and stop right there. The vast majority of people walking the streets are not computer programmers, math majors or physics professors. What about ordinary human beings? Even setting abstracts aside, it seems like their quick satisfaction should count for something...

Are you implying the only people that can properly use LSX are math or physics majors with a lot of time on their hands? Well that might make for a very small user base then xD

Sorry, I don't like replying to this kind of posts, but I thought this was kind of funny.

And my apologies to dream for further derailment of the thread...
Oleger: that is really impressive!


(edit) well since I'm replying anyway, I'd like to say a couple more things. I don't see LSX and Pangolin as concurrents. The price tag is from another order of magnitude, and the target audience is completely different. LSX is relatively cheap ($189 for basic) and yet very advanced, for the ones who are willing to spend some time with it. The cheapest Pangolin product is three times that price, aimed towards people who want a working solution straight out of the box.

I will always recommend LSX to hobbyists, because I think it's a fine piece of software that can do most of the things you want, at the cost of a bit of your time to get over the learning curve. But even then, the basic functions (rotation, size, intensity, colour, transpose) are available at a few mouse clicks. Only when you want these functions to behave differently from their default behaviour, expressions and math are what you want.
If you would read every thread on PL, you might have noticed I recommended QS to somebody a few days ago, simply because he was asking for a simple piece of software that could deliver a show with minimal attention. So the virtual LJ function in QS is exactly what he needed.

[polishedball]

Bill since you are here, would you add support for the USBmicro support to QS to control legacy TTL beam tables and Lumia, most now would not do it via DMX but my stuff is still old school. It was added at my request to LSX, I never requested it from pangolin as I figured it was obsolete and wouldn't happen. (Perhaps wrongly) I do have QS if you need the serial lmk I can provide it.

http://www.usbmicro.com/documents/55...BD3400BDC.html

Thanks

[swamidog]

Regarding what you wrote about LSX, I certainly agree that Swami has done impressive abstract work. What I haven't seen (admittedly haven't looked for it either) is a perponderance of successful users. Nearest I can tell, Swami and the one other guy (sorry, I'm terrible with names) who is also successful at making abstract are both computer programmers and, moreover they both appear to be unmarried computer programmers at that. I might be wrong, but that's my impression. My point is -- sure, it is clear that someone with a highly analytical mind and lots of time on his hands can eventually turn out impressive work. But what about "the rest of us"?

actually, i'm an artist. i built my projector for use in photographic projects and show creation spun out of that. while i have an IT day job, there's really no skill crossover to my LSX work.

you are overstating the complexity of LSX. i touched on this during my presentation at SELEM, but for those that weren't able to make it:

my body of LSX work is almost entirely devoid of programming. i occasionally use a "clone" expression, but that's not math or programming. it's not technical, it's not complex, and it's not difficult. i sit on the couch, i watch king of the hill re-runs, and i make pretty light. i am "the rest of us".

i absolutely agree that LSX has a very small user base, and because of this, the number of folks making stellar content is small. i hope this changes in the future.

this is a laser forum. i really don't talk much about my personal life here, and the insinuation that LSX users don't get laid is equal parts amusing, offensive, and odd.

Even speaking for myself, I've written literally hundreds of thousands of lines of software code. But frankly when it comes time to make a laser show, I want the quickest path to success. Putting this into words, I want to get my thoughts "through the machine and onto the screen", and I'd rather not do computer programming to accomplish this.

this is very valid. however, it's not necessary to know/do computer programming to make LSX shows.

Putting this into context with my implied question -- I *know for an absolute fact* that when clients have our software, they *will* be successful with it! I say this based on an observation of thousands of clients who, over the years, make posts on our Facebook, contacting us by email, as well as people posting on our forum etc. Not only the top laser professionals, many of whom can be seen on the "Powered by Pangolin" section of our web site, but also beginners who continually give testimonials as to how QuickShow and a store-bought laser changed their lives!

Bottom line -- I know our software works, and that even unsophisticated, non-computer-programming clients will be successful with it, and be successful quickly.

totally bogus. there are a lot of starving laserists with pangolin products. there are also a log of starving laserists without pangolin products.

*i* have pangolin products. i do not consider myself a successful laserist.

quickshow/fb3 is quite easy to get started using and i often recommend it to "mash buttons and make pretty light" DJ's and hobbyists that are looking for some quick and easy gratification. it works well and the entry barrier is reasonably low, but to imply that purchasing pangolin (or any other vendor's) products is a guarantee for success in the industry is rather disingenuous.

in my personal work, and in my day job, i focus a lot on process. how do i make things that are elegant and robust? how do i simplify and automate? how do i derive the greatest satisfaction while performing a task? how can i be smarter at the end of the day than i was at the beginning?

this is why i build my projectors instead of buying them from china. this is why i'm piecing together an old school ion system. this is why i make light. the love of learning curves and connections. this intersect of art and science and spirit.

lsx allows me to express some of that. but it's just a tool. like all things, you get out what you put in. i don't have the stomach for religious wars.

at the end of the day, it's your money, and your time, and your satisfaction. buy the hammer that's suited for your nails and make some beautiful light.

[polishedball]

. i don't have the stomach for religious wars.

Wouldn't know it from your Facebook posts

[swamidog]

hahahaha!

"the myth of the killer ape is true"

Wouldn't know it from your Facebook posts

[james]

Sorry. I just have to chime in....

SELEM 2013 was especially fun.

The "feeling in the air" was as thick as the actual fog!

It was really something to see all of the show material in the big theater AND to know exactly where it was coming from

...and NOT coming from!

There were a lot of grins in the room.

Some of the fallout conversation here was equally satisfying.

I said it YEARS ago! Choosing a DAC is like choosing a religion!

Some laserists see the value of Pantheism.

Some of us are Heretics and Pagans.

James.

[Pangolin]

Bill since you are here, would you add support for the USBmicro support

Hi Polished,

Sorry but I've totally lost context. Please contact me by email so we can discuss your topic in greater detail. I don't get to PL much, so private email or any of the other contact modalities would be much better.

------------------------

@James: You might have said it best. Indeed choosing software might very well be like choosing a religeon. In the beginning of our laser career, we chose Amiga. Then we switched to PC because we wanted to make money (plus Amiga was clearly on the ropes in the early '90s) Most recently we've begun some Mac development as it seems that this is where the market is going, not to mention that the hardware and software truly are much better. With each change it was heart wrenching... Could be the same with laser software.

I'm looking forward to hearing from Adam Burns when he has a chance to reply. He's always struck me as someone who is level-headed and likely has less of a dog in this fight than most of the resondants so far (of course including me)...

Bill

[james]

Amiga, Windows PC and Mac are (were) all operating systems tied to hardware platforms. These are not laser DAC / software solutions.

The overall, top level design criteria for my system, LaserBoy, was to not be tied to any one of them, but instead to work, exactly the same, on all of them.

This idea probably doesn't mean anything at all to the end user who has already picked a platform with an OS, except that it might be seen as a bit more future proof.

If you really get the idea that laser signals are in fact well within the realm of digital audio and can always be streamed as generic wave data, you should never have to endure any kind of heart wrenching change to move from one system to another. At it's roots, it's all the same thing.

I don't think the market is moving towards Mac at all. If anything it's moving away from desktop or laptop computers all together and towards smart phones and tablets, mostly running Android. Beyond that, I think Internet TVs are going to replace the large screen computers.

James.

[SaltyRobot]

in my personal work, and in my day job, i focus a lot on process. how do i make things that are elegant and robust? how do i simplify and automate? how do i derive the greatest satisfaction while performing a task? how can i be smarter at the end of the day than i was at the beginning?

...

at the end of the day, it's your money, and your time, and your satisfaction. buy the hammer that's suited for your nails and make some beautiful light.

Nicely said Swami.

Having tools does not make you great at anything but it does give you the ability to learn and figure out what works and what doesn't. Every time I build something I learn a little more for next time. Every time I make a laser show its the same thing. If you look at anyone's first laser show and then compare it to a laser show they did after 100s of hours of experience its night and day but both are still valid as art.