winni need some help and suggestion

[TechJunkie]

FYi PL is not the only laser forum that has wonderful and caring members- in the last two years lots stepped up gave a handup- (not a hand out) to- a member nearly killed in a rollover that took his wife's life- we rescued a 'fav of all' member(he is disabled & wife w/cancer) from losing their home to foreclosure(hellova nice bank uh?) and another had all his belongings destroyed by a flood in Brazil that may have, in part been caused by someone(govt) messing it a dam or levy- and there has been more- these things restore faith in our fellow man just when another or nature has brought tradegy.

hk

Just another quick note. I donated to James, and Rob also, so please dont take my earlier posts as me not wanting to help someone out. Its just in this case I think its setting a bad example letting scammers off the hook, and it was her decision to front a sale in the pursuit of financial gain. Its totally 2 different situations here.

[Bradfo69]

Point taken. And yes, every set of circumstances is different. Hell, I have my own story than a number of members know about and it's a whole of a lot more than $6,000 that I'm out. (I won't go so far as to say scammed. Just overpromised and under delivered.) I almost added to your list of 6 Steps the other day by naming some individuals NOT to deal with around here. But I digress...

I've never had any dealings with Goldenstar. I've gotten some price sheets e-mailed to me and that's about it. But, I stepped up and also contributed based, soley on the character of those here who do regularly deal with Winni and Goldenstar and their feelings about this matter. I'm sure they analyzed the situation and perhaps felt the same way. But they decided it was important to them to do something for her in a bad situation and, that was enough for it to be important to me. I don't think it sets a precedent that we habitually chip in to allow scammers off the hook and believe it's an isolated situation. I can also believe, based on what I've heard that she may very well have been held personally accountable. Salespeople are sometimes handed some pretty raw deals by employers, regardless of culture. But, as mentioned I understand your point.

[polishedball]

I've never had any dealings goldenstar .

I didn't think there was anyone you haven't bought from.

And yeah your story really is sad. Hard time believing it.

[TechJunkie]

Thanks for your comments Brad. I think you should make a thread about those people you are talking about in the Seller review section. It would help steer people, and me, away from them. I've had custom work done by many people who claim to be pros, only to find out later they are hacks.

I've been burned so many times by the Chinese it has really left a bad taste in my mouth. Their business ethic is the worst I've ever dealt with. So I really have no sympathy for them, and I hate the fact they made me feel this way. I was almost blinded by a pair of 405nm goggles from Bridge that in reality only blocked <10% of the beam. All that aside I'm sure if Anton is reading this he is laughing his ass off, and that doesnt sit right with me. I would advise that if something like this happens again to keep it off record, and in PMs. All personal donations I've made online have either been anonymous, or not public. I've always believed having a good heart has been its own reward.

[absolom7691]

TechJunkie,

Your post is too long and I am too lazy to break it down bit by bit. I will just say this... Have you ever put money in the salvation army dish? Ever donated money for any charity? Ever volunteered for a fundraiser that would not benefit you at all? If you haven't then I can see why you don't understand.

Most of us here are nice guys. You seem to think that we are paying Anton's debt, you are mistaken. Or that we are helping out Goldenstar Lasers as a self proclaimed collection agency of sorts. None of this is true. What we are doing is helping someone in need. This is charity. This is what charity is. It is helping someone in need, regardless of their situation. I gave $50 because honestly, I wouldn't miss it. It didn't sting to hit the "send money". I have never bought anything from Winni but I felt like helping. Believe me, I despise socialism and will fight it at every turn but this was my choice and it felt good. Am I being scammed or tricked? Maybe but do I care? No.

Too much faith in mankind? Not really. I wouldn't trust most people further than I could throw them *insert Ferris Bueller quote here* and I don't believe Anton will nut-up and pay but I have to hold some hope that we are not all pieces of shit and some of us will always do the right thing. I am no bleeding-heart liberal or hippy commie but I do hold us up to a certain level and most people deliver. Those that don't, I just let them slip off my radar.

Just sayin.

[TechJunkie]

TechJunkie,

Your post is too long and I am too lazy to break it down bit by bit. I will just say this... Have you ever put money in the salvation army dish? Ever donated money for any charity? Ever volunteered for a fundraiser that would not benefit you at all? If you haven't then I can see why you don't understand.

Let me start off saying I'm disabled, and live on a very fixed income. My spending money is less than $150 a month.

I donate to the Salvation Army nearly every time I walk into a store. I donate to the forums I roam, and to the members of the forum who really need help. I've been volunteering my work, and time to a 113 year old underprivileged children's summer camp for 28 years. I've even help feed my neighbors who didnt have enough to eat. I understand more than you know. In my very first post I said I've always given more than I've taken, and thats a fact. I'm sorry, but I dont consider a salesperson who works for a laser company thats halfway around the world, that no one knows personally, who made a mistake at work, a worthy person to donate $6000 to. If you think its worthy then all the power to you. I was just expressing my opinion, just like you've express yours. Just because mine differs doesnt give you a reason to challenge my character. I'm not challenging anyone else. Its your money, do what you want with it, its just not the way I would handle it.

[TechJunkie]

Look, I'm sorry I said anything. I'm bowing out. I wasnt trying to tell people what to do, or cast a shadow on Winni, or her company. I wasnt trying to debate it, or put down anyone's generosity. I just wanted to share an opinion, and look outside the box for a minute. I'm very happy to be a part of a community thats honest, and generous. Its a very rare thing now a days.

Thanks,

Mark

[absolom7691]

Woah woah.... I wasn't attacking your character, man! We are all friends in here. I wasn't offended by your comments at all nor am I comdemning your opinion. I was just commenting on it to help you understand where I feel we were coming from.

I get what you're saying about a salesperson making a bad call. I understand that. I mean, if someone got fired from McDonalds for making the wrong meal then you're right, I probably wouldn't pitch in money. I think why this was done is that this is a small community (this forum, not lasers on the whole). That a member here blatently took advantage and then lied repeatedly about it hits close to home. See the group buy thread for cylindrical correction lenses. It happens all the time, people can get taken advantage of. The good thing about that situation was that the person came clean and corrected the problem to the best of their ability.

You don't need to go. This is just a discussion. If I came off like I was judging your character, I apologize. That was not intended.

[Bradfo69]

Thanks for your comments Brad. I think you should make a thread about those people you are talking about in the Seller review section. It would help steer people, and me, away from them. I've had custom work done by many people who claim to be pros, only to find out later they are hacks.

It's coming... I don't want to publicly post stories yet... I've been tempted but it's a lot more dangerous posting bad things than praise. John is right, I have bought things from damn near everyone here that's ever sold something and could post honest reviews about a lot. The majority, I will say, have all gone very smoothly and there are some that I really ought to praise.

I've been burned so many times by the Chinese it has really left a bad taste in my mouth. Their business ethic is the worst I've ever dealt with. So I really have no sympathy for them, and I hate the fact they made me feel this way.

While I can fully appreciate that, I'm pleased to say that there are a number of them I'm finding that are stepping up their game. The analogy I used with someone recently is the Japanese and Korean car manufactures. (I've owned 4 Hyundai's) Many of the chinese lasers and laser companies are and have been, the 1985 Hyundai Pony (I think it was) and a laughingstock of the car industry. And now, years later the Sonata is one of the best selling, best built cars in America. They have a $60,000 flagship luxury sedan now that rivals any propeller car out of Bavaria. Great reputation. Great warranty and great value for the dollar by comparison. Some are now selling US varianced equipment as well or working towards that goal. I know there are US manufacturers that have issues with that and some welcome the competition while others abhor it. What they shouldn't do is... ignore it... and find themselves going the way of Oldsmobile, American Motors, Pontiac, Plymouth, etc.

All that aside I'm sure if Anton is reading this he is laughing his ass off, and that doesnt sit right with me.

I hear ya!

[TechJunkie]

You don't need to go. This is just a discussion. If I came off like I was judging your character, I apologize. That was not intended.

I'm sorry too. I get heated easily. Thats where most of my negative reputation comes from. Believe me, I know some of my opinions are over the top. I can also be brutally direct, and defensive at the same time, and I know it rubs some people the wrong way.

I'd still send Anton a dead fish in the mail though...