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Thread: winni need some help and suggestion

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechJunkie View Post
    I know some of my opinions are over the top. I can also be brutally direct, and defensive at the same time, and I know it rubs some people the wrong way.
    You warned us of that in your first post. Healthy debates are part of what makes this forum so engaging. Rock on!

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    I only read enough of the debate since I was last here to get the general idea, but I will say one point, in a few sentences, rather than get into debate.

    To me, it was never about paying Anton Whatsizname's debt. Only he can do that. What it's about is, showing a woman in China that we are not a bunch of rich tools willing to cut off the branch we're sitting on. One way or another, most of us rely on that kind of work, and few of us are willing to work that hard. Like Japan, China's people are taking big risks with their own safety and wellbeing to change their country and economy where most 'western' nations have put that big change behind them, and only really stupid waste is likely to demand we go through it again. It's basically about making something better than it might otherwise be so we all stand to get something out of it, especially Winni who got directly hit by this. There are plenty of Chinese firms doing really bad business, but that's why I thought it was important to help someone who won't act like that. It beats doing nothing but telling the bad ones to do better.

    I really don't understand why people will assume that kindness is misidirected weakness. I'm as bitterly cynical as anyone is ever likely to be, at times, but a bit of live-and-let-live shoudl never be confused with weakness or gullibility. I once stopped a mugger who pulled a knife on my in the street at night. The thing was about 10 inches long. He's stepped up to keep pace with me, was affecting affability, a method some muggers use to lull a victim into being unable to take any initiative. What I did was to tell him in the same conversational way that he was using, that he wouldn't need that, I haven't got any money anyway. On the TV, we all get 'taught' that this situation usually ends in in a stabbing as the frustrated mugger, having declared intent by production of a weapon, has littl left to lose, and woudl rather scare or kill the victim into silence instantly. I've stopped enough fights in the past to know that in this situation the best thing to do is steer as quickly and quietly as possible, a better course, one that lets everyone out safely. The shit usually goes down badly when someone can't or will not understand that, or when they panic leaving an aggressor no time to think and figure the safe quiet way out. The way this relates to the current situation is that by choosing hope over fear, and doing something about it, something better can happen. If nothing else, it does at least not make it worse.

    Maybe Anton won't fix this. Who cares? Anton does, and that's about it, in the end. And worse things have been done, by people who went on to change more than anyone imagined. But like that mugger, you have to let him walk away. There's no point trying to own him, or in getting disappointed if he doesn't meet expectations. Better by far to have no expectations. The sooner we do that, the sooner he'll figure out that a bunch of people will have trust to be earned, and it won't come cheaply a second time. Apart from what I have been told about him, I know nothing. Don't much care to. Whether he'll change that is up to him. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting, but equally I have no reason to assume he won't. I already have too much to do with my time. Said more than I intended here too, as it happens..
    Last edited by The_Doctor; 12-05-2013 at 15:38.

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    I get it, you want to keep the connection positive. But I think you have it backwards. You dont need to keep her happy, she needs, and will keep you happy. She's in sales, you guys pay her salary. Just because some clown ripped her off doesnt reflect in any way on this forum. Her being a woman should mean nothing either. Would you donate money to a car sales person who sold you a car, and then got fired because they let someone take a car without paying the full amount? Would you really appeal to all your friends for money, and pay the dealership thousands of dollars to get their job back? I doubt you'd raise a dime.

    I dont think its week to be kind, but we all have to pay for the mistakes we make. No one is exempt. If you want to toss 6K in the wind there is a plethora of good causes in your own cities that need the money way more than she does. If you want to help women donate to a battered women's shelter. There is one in every city. They have newborns too.

    No one has answered if they would give 6K to Bridge if he made the same mistake. If your answer is no, then your generosity to Winni has motive behind it. If it has motive behind it, its not really generosity. Sorry but there is no honor in motive.

    Do you guys hate me yet, LMAO?
    “Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.” ― Bernard M. Baruch

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  4. #184
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    About Bridge, I've thought about exactly that. And hoped it wouldn't happen because it could get expensive. Thing is, is getting ripped off a mistake made by the victim? Most victims seem to think it is, but it's not nearly as true as it looks. Bad analogy perhaps, but valid enough: if a guy rapes a woman, is it the woman's fault? These days you could search a world to find a judge or policeman who would say 'yes', and not find many. What got to me was that her 'mistake' was in being too ready to work to please the guy, and as mistakes go that's about the most forgivable mistake there is. I figured she learn this hard enough without being left to handle it alone.

    About motive, sure, it's there. And some guy was rootling through the big communal bin on the street tonightn when I went to chuck something nasty in it, and actually it was something you said that partly tipped the balance. I gave him a couple of quid and said it beats going through the bin. I've been homeless, but I never wanted to root through bins. (Except for raiding a supermarket skip in 1983 with a bunch of other punks, but that was fun, that wasn't work). Anyway, I could have given him food instead, whatever, there are always better ways. For all I know food might be more likely to help him that drink or drugs bought with the money. But I feel better for doing it, so there is motive for me. But the point is, he can choose too. Before that moment, there was nothing to choose at that moment but that bin, alone in the cold. And I knew I wouldn't like having to do it. I stopped trying to separate my own motives from this stuff long ago. By including it I understand it all a bit better.

    I don't think I can keep Winni happy. That is so out of my control I don;t even think about it. But if I have some sense of value I decided I might as well put my money where my mouth is. (Actually I hate that phrase, just can't think of a better one, it's late here...)

    The main value to all this business is that it didn't slide by unseen, unfelt. If it had, it might happen again to someone a lot sooner than it is likely to now. As much as anything, I'm playing the odds. Which is weird. I never placed a bet in my life. Usually I only stake small certainties I have control over. This is totally different. In a way I was just thinking beyond what seemed 'normal'. At first I didn't expect any of this to happen. I hope it doesn't have to happen again. But shit happens, and we have to judge it as it happens. If there's a different way to deal with it, I'd probably try to find one. Or leave it to someone else next time.

  5. #185
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    Well ,it is on Friday here in the afternoon now ,Anton has not paid anything that he said ,he made a lie again at last .
    Whatever it is .Thanks all PL friend help me who help me so much more all the time ,I am so appreciated for it .
    I can not say any nice word to express my mind now,I also am not good at saying any pretty word ,but I will use my action and my service to do more and better in return to PL friend in this laser field.
    Best regards
    Winni
    Last edited by goldenstarwinni; 12-05-2013 at 22:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Doctor View Post
    About Bridge, I've thought about exactly that. And hoped it wouldn't happen because it could get expensive. Thing is, is getting ripped off a mistake made by the victim? Most victims seem to think it is, but it's not nearly as true as it looks. Bad analogy perhaps, but valid enough: if a guy rapes a woman, is it the woman's fault?
    Thanks for your honesty Doctor. Your analogies are kind of violent, LOL, but valid in a lot of ways.

    Sometimes it is the victims fault. It depends if it was an accident, or a mistake. Accident being a random occurrence. Mistake being one who knows better, but does it anyway. Mistakes are our fault, and we all have to pay for them. Thats how we learn, and grow as a people. There are no prizes for stupidity in this world. If there was we'd all have rooms full of trophies. I'd have a warehouse.

    Hi Winni. I would forget about Anton, and move forward from this. These fine men have stepped up and relieved your financial burden, so you dont have to worry about Anton anymore. Please dont look at our recent debate as an attack on you, or your company, it was not. It was an airing of different opinions on the situation. I'm sorry if I have offended you in anyway, it was not my intention. I wish you, and your company good luck, and peace.

    Mark
    “Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.” ― Bernard M. Baruch

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    ― Benjamin Franklin; stairwell plaque in the Statue of Liberty

    "And so shines a good deed in a weary world." - Willy Wonka

    6 Steps To Prevent You From Getting SCAMMED On The Internet CLICK

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenstarwinni View Post
    Well ,it is on Friday here in the afternoon now ,Anton has not paid anything that he said ,he made a lie again at last .
    Whatever it is .Thanks all PL friend help me who help me so much more all the time ,I am so appreciated for it .
    I can not say any nice word to express my mind now,I also am not good at saying any pretty word ,but I will use my action and my service to do more and better in return to PL friend in this laser field.
    Best regards
    Winni
    Good actions beat pretty words every time. If our politicians could learn this we might have an easier time.. TechJunkie's right, it is time now to let Anton be Anton, only he can change whatever that means. Even if vigilantes went to his door it won't change the man. More likely make him feel justified in bad actions. You don't need him, but he needed you. So if you do what you like doing, people will come to you, as he did, and if they have to wait, they will. I think if a person does not understand a need to wait for a thing that takes time, then they cannot be a reliable person whatever their intent is. As far as I know, a custom job usually gets some money up front, so both sides of a trade commit to the deal. I don't know what percentage, though. But something more than Anton's promise, for sure. I haven't bought from you, but that's because I can't afford a projector. Got to build a few lasers myself first, to manage that. I'll be buying some of Bridge's dichros, and if you have single optics like that, that's where I'd look first. I won't go for the big stuff unless I'm ready to do it. So much easier that way..

    TechJunkie, you're welcome. Truth is complex. Like that elephant thing where different guys have different ideas about it. Neat little assertions are less efficient than a few paragraphs of stream-of-consciousness stuff. Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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    I have not bought anything from her nor do I have plans to any time soon. I would have done the same for bridge. I'm a fool but I am happy with that. If your house blows up I'll help you too. No I am not rich but I chose to be poor by giving what I have away. I could have a nice new car for all I've given away.

    You can influence a group to do most anything. I chose something positive. Read some other threads around here and you'll see others doing the same and negative as well. There are plenty who have gotten this group raving negative. And yes I do mean this and any forum can be manipulated. That's what mob sense is all about.

    Being nice or a fool as some seem to think being nice is, is a choice. Live in a desert, be deserted, or have desert.

  9. #189
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    Winni after getting your price list for projectors, I assume since I am on your mailing list I requested the laser module price list. Still haven't scene anything please send it.
    leading in trailing technology

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
    Winni after getting your price list for projectors, I assume since I am on your mailing list I requested the laser module price list. Still haven't scene anything please send it.
    Sorry ,your email is ?

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