MOBO Awards 2013 - Major ***FAIL***

[The_Doctor]

About tripping hazards and stages, I think a stage edge is dangerous anyway, and old lime lights used to have baffles on the stage edge, and the lights themselves were extremely dangerous. Artists got used to that. The real risk is the floor below the stage front! If someone falls off a stage, that's where they really get hurt. One squatted gig I remember had some big unfinished dais framework, radially arrayed 2by2 wood lengths raised about a foot off the real floor around the front of a curved stage (this was an old hall that had a real stage, part finished before some restoration was abandoned). A few people who knew a bit of carpentry decided they had no option but to finish the job, and built an entire secondary raised floor around it over the framework to make it a lot safer for anyone there, on stage or off.

Re derailment, it didn't get that bad. Even when heated apart from a few personal bickerings it stayed close to the subject. And if it didn't raise at least a few interesting digressions, we're probably not learning enough.

[The_Doctor]

Anyway, how does someone miss a laser which has already got a bright yellow and black "DANGER LASER RADIATION AVOID EXPOSURE" sign on it?

Under the circumstances, they're hard to miss even when they haven't. Sorry... Anyway, I stand by my assertion that flashes of light like those are way over MPE, measurement or no measurement. Even in green, best sensitivity to eyes, a 2mW beam can't flare as spectacularly as that. Anyone who has played with low power green knows this.

[Galvonaut]

I suppose I should add, given the safety aspect of this thread, that if you are insured (which you should be if you are doing lasers commercially) you need to read the policy and be in compliance with it to be covered.

The guidance iirc, states that you need to carry out a risk assessment of your activities and that means you should understand how to make a risk assessment correctly. There are plenty of risk assessment courses available (thanks to the insurance industry and the blame/claim culture) and everything that has been talked about here should have been thought about when making the risk assessment.

The risk assessment should be done before the installation (maybe take notes on your preliminary venue visit) so that there are no surprises when you install.

I know it sounds crazy and I know from experience teaching conservation skills to adults, that some of the old-school poo-poo health and safety. At the end of the day, these are the ones who invariably get injured or sued.

If you don't know how to carry out a risk assessment correctly, if you don't know how to secure your lasers in accordance with your risk assessment and the guidance, you shouldn't be carrying out laser activities at public venues - because, for a start, you probably aren't insured!

[norty303]

James' still shots show up the alarming fact that those beams, when viewed from the side, are very visible.

[andy_con]

my solution, ive told you my solution dont put a projector on the stage where its going to get knocked/moved and you wont have any problems. that is the anwser to the problem.

H&S libaility - simplistic!!! your missing my point.

Equally though, I just wasn't comfortable with the implication that merely having an object on the front of the stage would be a tripping hazard implying liability was a foregone conclusion as provided the presence of an object be it a laser, speaker or other item on the front of stage is reasonable (H&S 6 pack Regs for Work Areas Regulation 12 (3) "So far as is reasonably practicable, every floor in a workplace and the surface of every traffic route in a workplace shall be kept free from obstructions" - note reasonably practical (that may be influenced by the resources you have available)), and provided if there is a danger you have given sufficient warning through demarcation, notices and / or a safety briefing, then there should be no issue of liability with a performer, especially if they are under the influence of drink or drugs which impair their ability to keep themselves safe.

alan we all know your very good at using google and quoting things you have read, but ive said it before and ill say it again, things are very different in the real world.

but as long as your happy with your anwser to every problem then thats cool.

I think we were both done with that misquote..

Anyway, it would be helpful if Andy would share his floor mounted solution.

As for tripping hazards, Andy I think your assessment of H&S liability is somewhat simplistic in this situation unless of course a beam block is totally unreasonable as a solution which personally I would doubt given that many regard a physical block as the gold standard. There may be more elegant ways of achieving safety though and if Andy would care to share then no doubt it would be useful to all.

[White-Light]

my solution, ive told you my solution dont put a projector on the stage where its going to get knocked/moved and you wont have any problems. that is the anwser to the problem.

If it's mounted at the front for the effect though that's not necessarily possible. Keith appears to have offered a solution to where alternative mounting isn't possible.

alan we all know your very good at using google and quoting things you have read, but ive said it before and ill say it again, things are very different in the real world.

Andy I don't need to Google. I defer to Keith as to the superior method of mounting floor mounted projectors - mine was a amateur suggestion not a best solution. However, I know a little about the real legal world. Common law only requires reasonable steps not absolute safety. H&S 6 Pack Regs, as above. Ultimately anything left in any workplace area will depend on the reasonableness of it being there and if the danger can't be removed in any area where employees could potentially trip or otherwise injure themselves, what steps were taken by the employer to alleviate the danger or warn employees and enable them to be safe.

[andy_con]

taken from there facebook page, OMG at 2.20mins

that's some scary shit, that's 40 watts of laser light






seeing as laser hire London have had it removed from my youtube page here we go again

[RyesonC]

Sure is Scary !!

http://s187.photobucket.com/user/mag...p0024.flv.html

[norty303]

taken from there facebook page, OMG at 2.20mins

that's some scary shit, that's 40 watts of laser light

Already covered in posts #5 and #47 of this thread

[Galvonaut]

Andy - Seeing this changes things a bit.

I'd like to ask JStewart if this should have been reported by the company under RIDDOR? I'm uncertain whether there are any laser-related incidents reportable and it would be good to know - although I hope I will NEVER have to report something that I have done.

If something as severe as this happens - you should learn.... QUICK!

I'm amazed that anyone would even consider putting such a dangerous beam in the path of the fire extinguishers too.
Flashing those beams around with mirrors, walking across them, bouncing them off windows - just the specular reflections from those pieces of paper can't have been eye-safe.... and no safety glasses.