Forum Advice Needed

[Laser Electronics Ltd]

If all the drivers were original and had never had a problem then there shouldn't have been any reworking.

[The_Doctor]

He said the one with the dodgy pads arrived that way, and rework on the others was specific FET replacement. Maybe the end game won't be interesting. Looks like stalemate.

[buffo]

As for what you paid for these drivers whether they were used or new has no relevance on the price.

I strongly disagree with this. It's one thing to pay a premium for a NEW product when it's in short supply. But paying a price premium for a USED product that is advertised as new is a wholly different matter.

Andy himself admitted that he doesn't remember if he specifically listed the items as being used. Keep that in mind.

He said the one with the dodgy pads arrived that way

If the driver was used, no doubt the wires had to be de-soldered before it was shipped. I strongly suspect that this is when the pads were damaged, and I agree that it looks like the heat was too high. (Common mistake.)

Another thing to remember is that many members here have had problems with the P3 driver. I've had 4 of them fail, and at least one of them had a wire-wound resistor installed as the current-sensing resistor. (This was the cause of the spikes I saw on my oscilloscope that everyone couldn't believe in the big thread about drivers over the summer.) My understanding is that Andrew was planning to check into a possible part-swap that may have been done by the assembling company to save money, even though it would have ruined his design. (Current-sensing should always be completely non-inductive!) Nevertheless, given the failure rate of these drivers, it could be that they just died, and it's not Andy's fault.

In the end though, the fact that the buyer never tested the items when they arrived is the overriding point here. True, he may have not known that they were used, but if he had opened the package he would have been able to see that, and would have contacted Andy about it. The lesson is to always inspect your goods when you receive them.

That being said - if it were me, I might be inclined to offer a refund just to maintain good faith since there is some controversy over how they were listed. But that's just me.

Adam

[andy_con]

your right I didn't actually respond to your PM, my bad im sorry.

at work when people send us correspondence filled with capitals and underlining the first thing we say is arrogant! I don't understand all this capitals and underlining so ill just write normally.

had I of known something was up with some of the drivers I wouldn't of sold them, im not into selling damaged goods. as ive said they came off working builds and as far as im concerned they were working.
come to think of it I have a spare P3 just came out of a working projector, I know its fully working cos I ran the projector before taking it to bits to check the scanners etc...
if you PM me your address ill send it to you?

is there any option to send the drivers that aren't working to drlava for a repair?

just for your info this isn't a game of chess
also I kept names and things out of this post so it didn't turn into a forum argument as I thought it was the right thing to do, but clearly you like arguing.

[kecked]

Get the new batch. There were definite issues with the last batch. The new ones are working well. I got 9 of them with zero dudes.

[dsli_jon]

your right I didn't actually respond to your PM, my bad im sorry.

..and that's the only reason for the reponse in the thread, here, Andy.. instead of simply addressing the issue in PM, I hear nothing but 'crickets'.. till this 'court-case'? Silly Rabbit, trix are for kids.. I certainly could not very-well 'respond' in this thread, w/O 'revealing who it was', etc.. Why play silly games?? Next time, just communicate directly to resolve, ya?

at work when people send us correspondence filled with capitals and underlining the first thing we say is arrogant! I don't understand all this capitals and underlining

..Obviously you don't know too many Italians..

had I of known something was up with some of the drivers I wouldn't of sold them,..

Ya, and I believe that, but.. For (essentially) full-price, I would have expected at least 'full-disclosure'.. Again - I'm *quite certain* that if this had been 'reversed', you'd have no trouble saying 'hey, wtf, m8'.. amirite?

come to think of it I have a spare P3 just came out of a working projector, I know its fully working...

Yeah, well.. the problem with that 'resolution-suggestion' is that it still leaves me with a 'crap-shoot' - a gamble - for (again, essentially..) the price of a New driver.. Can you see why I am not too-keen to up and risk another $250. in diodes?? It's really just-best - at near-full-price - to get the money to buy 3x new ones - Or just have you get me new ones. I'd have no-issue with you simply getting 3x from Dr Lava, and having shipped direct to Chad..

..and, if you say 'well, you assumed they were new, I wasn't explicitly-advertising them as-new', yada-yada'... Honestly, Andy, if I had-known they were 'used', I likely would have said 'Pass' - certainly at near-full price - unless you could have provided some test-data, proving that they were *worth* near-new cost - and - Most-importantly - SAFE to be running diodes with... because, now, I'm in far-worse shape than if I'd simply not-bought them (at least I would still have not lost all those diodes..).. And, I think I'm being pretty-fair in not 'demanding' that you buy me 5-new diodes, also, doncha think?

is there any option to send the drivers that aren't working to drlava for a repair?

I fully-trust Chad's troubleshooting and board-analysis skills. Regardless of the other ignoramus'-comments in this thread, the guy KNOWS what he's doing.. If he says they're shot, then Doc Lava isn't going to be able to do much, either - his recommendation, I am quite-sure, would simply be to 'buy a new one' - especially for putting into a 32 Watt Lamborghini-engine, like Chad built.. Not worth the risk...

just for your info this isn't a game of chess...clearly you like arguing.

I like communication. I like peace. I like cooperation. I like not hearing that a $35. used PCB just wasted $250. of my diodes. And this whole thread would not 'exist' if ya'd simply responded to the PM / offered some reasonable-resolution, ya?

So... 'What do I want you to do'? I want you to think of what You would want Me to do for You, if this whole thing was 'flipped', ok? - If I had sold you 5 FM3s - only 2 of them work properly - Two, not at all, one is real sketchy, and you're not-too keen on blowing another $250. in diodes.. What would you be asking of Me, right now, Andy?

Lemme know..
J

[dnar]

Get the new batch. There were definite issues with the last batch. The new ones are working well. I got 9 of them with zero dudes.

I love the English language. Just one typo and the meaning is changed totally, dude.

[andy_con]

my issue is its taken you 6 months + to say there is a problem and you have sent them to someone else to work on.

like I say as far as im concerns they left me working fine.

its a difficult situation that I don't know the answer to, as im sure you dont, I also dont have the money to replace the drivers

..and that's the only reason for the reponse in the thread, here, Andy.. instead of simply addressing the issue in PM, I hear nothing but 'crickets'.. till this 'court-case'? Silly Rabbit, trix are for kids.. I certainly could not very-well 'respond' in this thread, w/O 'revealing who it was', etc.. Why play silly games?? Next time, just communicate directly to resolve, ya?



..Obviously you don't know too many Italians..



Ya, and I believe that, but.. For (essentially) full-price, I would have expected at least 'full-disclosure'.. Again - I'm *quite certain* that if this had been 'reversed', you'd have no trouble saying 'hey, wtf, m8'.. amirite?



Yeah, well.. the problem with that 'resolution-suggestion' is that it still leaves me with a 'crap-shoot' - a gamble - for (again, essentially..) the price of a New driver.. Can you see why I am not too-keen to up and risk another $250. in diodes?? It's really just-best - at near-full-price - to get the money to buy 3x new ones - Or just have you get me new ones. I'd have no-issue with you simply getting 3x from Dr Lava, and having shipped direct to Chad..

..and, if you say 'well, you assumed they were new, I wasn't explicitly-advertising them as-new', yada-yada'... Honestly, Andy, if I had-known they were 'used', I likely would have said 'Pass' - certainly at near-full price - unless you could have provided some test-data, proving that they were *worth* near-new cost - and - Most-importantly - SAFE to be running diodes with... because, now, I'm in far-worse shape than if I'd simply not-bought them (at least I would still have not lost all those diodes..).. And, I think I'm being pretty-fair in not 'demanding' that you buy me 5-new diodes, also, doncha think?



I fully-trust Chad's troubleshooting and board-analysis skills. Regardless of the other ignoramus'-comments in this thread, the guy KNOWS what he's doing.. If he says they're shot, then Doc Lava isn't going to be able to do much, either - his recommendation, I am quite-sure, would simply be to 'buy a new one' - especially for putting into a 32 Watt Lamborghini-engine, like Chad built.. Not worth the risk...



I like communication. I like peace. I like cooperation. I like not hearing that a $35. used PCB just wasted $250. of my diodes. And this whole thread would not 'exist' if ya'd simply responded to the PM / offered some reasonable-resolution, ya?

So... 'What do I want you to do'? I want you to think of what You would want Me to do for You, if this whole thing was 'flipped', ok? - If I had sold you 5 FM3s - only 2 of them work properly - Two, not at all, one is real sketchy, and you're not-too keen on blowing another $250. in diodes.. What would you be asking of Me, right now, Andy?

Lemme know..
J

[dsli_jon]

my issue is its taken you 6 months + to say there is a problem and you have sent them to someone else to work on.

..Sorry, please explain *why* either of these points is of any-matter, in this case? Are you saying that you really would have been less 'countering' to our findings, 8 months ago? Explain, why, please, this would have made any 'difference' in your attitude.. It's not like these things 'spoiled' like fruit or something, because of the time, Andy.. They *showed up* borked - not what I expected for near full-price drivers - and all I get is 'sorry'?.. that's the crux of the matter, here.. I fail to see how the 'timeline' has anything to do with it.. There was no 'XX day-only warranty' expressed / implied, etc..

like I say as far as im concerns they left me working fine.

No they didn't. One had unsolderable pads, which WE did not touch, and one was DOA.. (that's 'Dead on Arrival..) If you wanna argue 'bad luck' on the third, well.. Great, thanks.

its a difficult situation that I don't know the answer to, as im sure you dont, I also dont have the money to replace the drivers

No, I know the 'correct answer' - what would YOU want me to do for YOU, if this was flipped.. just say 'sorry, tough snot'? :/ I don't think so.. I'm not 'putting a knife to your jugular' for $$, here, m8.. But, only a 'sorry' is really just not what you would ask of me.. Think about it.

j

[andy_con]

why does time matter? cos how do I know what you have done to those drivers in that long time span? clearly you dont trust me and I also dont trust you.

I am going to argue, the drivers were in working modules so as far as im concerned they were working when they left me.

thought id give the underlining thing a go, will work on capitals for the next one