X-BEAM 2WRGB - Painfully

[edison]

Even if he post a price you won,t buy it unless its more then half price directly from X beam or at least half price what a projector cost. Its always : .......but in china i can buy it cheaper.......... When you don,t list a price and serious people contact the seller anyway and then you can talk about it maybe come to a deal that both parties are happy with. These days its the most mw/ euro usd when it comes to projectors. Brand, quallity? who care,s !!!!

If Rob sells scanners in his webshop and you can buy it 5 pounds cheaper from china won,t but it from rob even if they live next door from him. But when the scanners have an issue they quickly know how to find Rob.


99% of the people buy only when its dirtcheap so the seller loosses a big amount on it even if its hardly being used. We call that steeling, but then agian that is how the world works these days.....


If someone offers almost brand new piece i will pay 60-70% of the price where he bought it for. That is fair. A kit from me including diodes was on sale for only 400usd and that was dirt cheap since the diodes are 400usd worth only. Do you think it will sell for that price? It will sell for 300usd or less because the seller is in need of the money after a while and people just wait for it. People arround here don,t pay a fair price but just wait untill the seller needs the money so bad so he lowers is prices, i call that stealing since the seller payed allot more but he is just with his back against the wall....... But then again who cares as long as you get what you want isn,t it. I believe in Karma and i,m happy to pay a reasonable amount because i feel allot better.

[White-Light]

Pangolin kvant and allot of others including me don,t list prices either. If your serious and you need it you will take effort.

I'll be quite honest with you Edison. If I go to any companies website selling any product that says "Contact us for prices", I simply navigate away.

To me it says one thing and one thing only. We're so expensive we don't want you comparing our prices with others...and then it poses the question, if you hide prices, what else are you hiding from me, poor service, specs, bad reviews etc etc.

It's psychologically a very very bad way to market a business.

I know you're a good guy, but trust me, you lose a lot of sales by not having clear prices marked on a website and a good shop front to buy from.

As for this thread, I'm with Norty, there's a lot to be gained from simply stating how much you want. You'll save a lot of unnecessary PM's from people who can't afford your price, and you'll save losing those people who don't bother to contact you because they think they can't afford it. Post a price and everyone knows where they stand and if its worth making contact.

[Stiffler]

I'll be quite honest with you Edison. If I go to any companies website selling any product that says "Contact us for prices", I simply navigate away.

I could not agree with you more!

Edison,

Your comparisons are ridiculous. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I will NEVER buy a product from you for 1 very simple reason: your products are not varianced. Look, I admire the quality of your work, and you build some beautiful projectors, but if I'm going to own an illegal module, I'm either going to buy it CHEAP, or build it myself for the experience. Regarding your theories on posting prices, they are equally as silly. Sure you might give people sticker shock, but someone else might be surprised at how reasonable your prices are, given the quality of your work. Either way you are losing potential buyers, and irritating the shit out of everyone else.

[carlos3621]

Kvants prices are listed on their website
Pangolins prices are also on their website,

[edison]

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I will NEVER buy a product from you for 1 very simple reason: your products are not varianced.

Correcction, you CANT buy from me since i,m not interested in selling projectors to the US market. Too much regulations Second i,m not interested in selling Projectors unless its a 10-20 watt or more. In the Low end market its not worth selling projectors. You have to compete with a chinese crap projector for no money. The customer in the lowerend are disco guys and schoolguys with a rich daddy who want play with it in their bedroom. Words like quality and service are words that doesn,t cross their mind nor have they any understanding of the difference between good and bad. Occassionally i build only a few becaused i rent Projectors out so its convinient to do a small run. Other then that i,m keep on doing what i like and that is building modules.

Look, I admire the quality of your work, and you build some beautiful projectors, but if I'm going to own an illegal module, I'm either going to buy it CHEAP, or build it myself for the experience.

Thanks Just for the record, a module is an OEM product that doesn,t need a variance.At least not where i live.

The reason for most people won,t buy a module from Kvant, arctos RGBlasersystems is dead simple. To afford those the average laserguy needs to ask a reasonable amount of money for doing lasershows. The guy next door does it for a few honderd less so in the end there is no money to replace and repair the equipment that they have. So there is only 2 choices, building things yourself to keep up with the neigbour that also gets more power or buy from china. That is why do beamshow modules now for the average guy who doesn,t have the skills to build them.


Pangolin might have prices but no one buys there FB3 from Rob but from some chinese suppliesimply because its the same thing for less money. Cheap is only what matters here because 95% of the guys here at PL charges not enough money. If everyone stayed home for less then 1000 euro people could afford buying an FB3 or a good module because prices would go up again for doing lasershows. The funny thing is that 99% is doing lasershows next to there regular job. That means they don,t need to do things for free beer only. Its just extra whipcream on top of the cake. Hobbiest kill the lasershow market and you can,t do anything about it. In 1 year you can buy a projector at Toys' r us.......

[TechJunkie]

Even if he post a price you won,t buy it unless its more then half price directly from X beam or at least half price what a projector cost. Its always : .......but in china i can buy it cheaper.......... When you don,t list a price and serious people contact the seller anyway and then you can talk about it maybe come to a deal that both parties are happy with. These days its the most mw/ euro usd when it comes to projectors. Brand, quallity? who care,s !!!!

If Rob sells scanners in his webshop and you can buy it 5 pounds cheaper from china won,t but it from rob even if they live next door from him. But when the scanners have an issue they quickly know how to find Rob.


99% of the people buy only when its dirtcheap so the seller loosses a big amount on it even if its hardly being used. We call that steeling, but then agian that is how the world works these days.....

You generalize way to much sir. I know plenty of people that will take quality over cheap prices. Myself included. I could of easily bought cheap Chinese parts and finished my first projector long ago (I started last March), but I'm holding out for better parts. And getting a good deal is not stealing. The person who sells the item sets the price, not the buyer. If they want to sell it cheap that does not mean the buyer is steeling from them. When you go to a store having a 70% off sale do you turn around and walk out because you think you're steeling from them? LMAO No, you walk around and find what you need, or can use. Sometimes in life we all have to cut our losses and move on. Its not stealing to take advantage of this. In many cases you're helping the seller to get the money they need. There are bigger priorities in life other than projectors, and parts. If my kid needed an operation you bet your arse I'd be selling my stuff quick, and I'd be grateful to the people that bought it. They are not steeling from me.

Hobbiest kill the lasershow market and you can,t do anything about it. In 1 year you can buy a projector at Toys' r us.......

Wow, once again you're way off. If it worked that way you'd have no small business, just corporations, and thats not good for anyone. Its the hobbyist that keep the market alive. The hobby level is what brings interest into the professional level while also supporting the professional level. This is how most businesses start. People need to to try things before going further into it. Not many people have $50,000 to start a business that they have no idea if they are going to like or not, or if it will make money for them to survive. I bet at least half your yearly revenue is from non professionals. With that statement you made you're alienating more than half your customers. I'd rethink making statements like that in the future.

I'd recommend taking a course in basic capitalism, and economics. It would help with your skewed outlook, and make you a better business man in the long run.

I skip over web sites without prices also. It makes me feel like they are hiding something. It also makes me feel one price is not for everyone, and I dont like that at all. You can easily get taken advantage of that way. Competitive pricing is what drives the market, and keeps things at a level playing field. Once again, simple economics.

[edison]

There are bigger priorities in life other than projectors, and parts. If my kid needed an operation you bet your arse I'd be selling my stuff quick, and I'd be grateful to the people that bought it. They are not steeling from me.

Explain the guy why you need to sell it and if he wants to pay 80% of the retail price or what you bought it for. 99% here will answer with some excuse that they can,t afford more. That is because they try to fund there equipment with doing lasershows and the money that people ask for a show is way to low because there neighbour is doing it cheaper. Even if they could afford the 80 procent they will say they only can afford half of what your asking. THAT is what will happen , i call that taking advantage of someone else his problems

In a nutshell everyone arround here is for a bargain no matter what the circumstances are. If its almost brand new you should pay 80% of the asking or retail price. THAT is fair.

But back to the main subject of this Thread. Nice projector for sale and hardly used anyone willing to pay 80% of the money that Foxtrot7 spend on it? Lets see and wait......

[TechJunkie]

In a nutshell everyone arround here is for a bargain no matter what the circumstances are.

Thats the whole world, not just here. Its called bartering (correction, its haggling). There is a simple equation to combat this, ask 90% and let them talk you down to 80%.

Fair is a relative term. You cant put your expectations on people because everyone has a different level of what they consider fair. There is nothing wrong with wanting to save money where you can. Its everyones individual right to either accept, or deny a transaction based on what THEY think is fair. Its nothing that should be taken personal because you always have the right to say "No thank you".

By posting, either on or off topic, we are bumping this thread to the top of the list, thus helping the sale.

[Bradfo69]

The has been no recent activity from Foxtrot so this may very well be a dead issue anyway.

I have to agree with others that without some sort of price, I'm immediately usually turned off. If I want to get something, the first thing I'm going to try and do is find out if it sells for anywhere near what I can afford. Sometimes I'm looking just to see what it costs in the first place. Take the Clay Packy Sharpy for example. I was curious what a light like that sells for and when I started searching, if the web site didn't list a price or said "call for price", I'd move on to the next web site. I certainly wasn't going to call them.

If something used pops up for sale that I have an interest in, I'm also going to search other sources to find out if it's a good deal. Say for example, if a Coherent Lasercheck power meter shows up and the seller wants $250, I'm going to research to find out if that's a good price. If the web site doesn't list a price... I'm moving on and certainly not calling them to check.

I'm also with Tech that buying something cheap isn't stealing in most cases, if the seller is getting what they ask. That's the whole point of stores having sales. If there are two grocery stores in my area both selling the same brand of ice cream and one week, one store puts it on sale at 30 percent off, where do you think I'm going to buy my ice cream? It sounds to me like you'd prefer to buy it from the store where it's full price. Or take Pangolin for example... every Christmas they have a holiday sale. Often it's the lower price that's going to motivate me to buy. But should I feel like I "stole" it? Heck no.

I've bought quality. I have Kvant, RGBlasersystems, and Melles Griot. Heck, I even have some of your stuff. By the same token, I've also bought cheap. The divide, to be honest. isn't always that great. As a matter of fact, my most expensive projector with some Kvant modules in it, I don't even use because the module is out of alignment and I can't even get the dealer to return my e-mail. I had a green die in a cheaper projector and the seller corrected the problem at no cost within days.

I'm also not to proud to say that I've taken advantage of opportunities when sellers are more desperate. Whether they are stores going out of business or individuals that need to raise money to pay rent. So yes, you are correct that people here do that sometimes.

I'll also point out you contradicted yourself between post 11 and 17. In 11 you said you'd pay 60-70% if something was hardly used. In 17 you said people should pay at least 80% if something is hardly used.

"If someone offers almost brand new piece i will pay 60-70% of the price where he bought it for. That is fair."

"If its almost brand new you should pay 80% of the asking or retail price. THAT is fair."

Which is it?

(Not trying to be overly antagonistic, Just adding my $.02.)

[norty303]

Heck, in business terms, for another business to buy a used item it needs to be 30% of new price, not some fantasy 70 or 80%.