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Thread: New 2ok scanners from lasershowparts..

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by aijii View Post
    [sarcasm]Yep, thats exactly what we're doing.... [/sarcasm] <rolls eyes>

    I wish, when I started out, that there was a low cost source of laser parts available around. Instead, there just "seemed" to be a bunch of arseholes at the top making a fuckload of money off anyone who was lucky enough to be able to afford any gear... these days we understand it is a limited market...

    I think you'll find that the majority of our customers are well aware that there are more expensive, higher quality components available in the market.

    And they are free to pursue business with them.

    We do not force anybody to buy any our products. We publish the specs so that our customers can make informed decisions.

    We run a lot of the gear we sell in our own hire projectors. We haven't been let down to date. We understand the limits of the gear, and we do not falsely advertise our products to be something they are not.

    Specifically, I do not recall ever saying they were a cheap way to get Cambridge or GSI level reliability and/or performance. We have definetly seen these Chinese scanners perform better than some of the stuff coming out of Germany and the USA, which we've paid orders of magnitude more for in our early days.

    At the end of the day, we know that what we sell is a good deal, and an easy road for hobbyists and maybe even some professionals to building a laser projector or two. If we have enabled somebody to turn their dream or obsession into a reality, then we have succeeded in our goals....

    BTW -> I don't know if some of our more regular (and appreciative) customers would appreciate you referring to them as novices...
    Dave & Adrian,

    If I sell a customer a new product that he's not happy with, then I provide them with a full refund, (minus the cost of shipping) no questions asked. Also when I receive a money order or certified cheque I give my customers the benefit of the doubt and ship the same day, rather than the long dramatic delays you made me suffer through. A money order or certified cheque is the same as cash .
    I expressed dissatisfaction in the product not only because of the CRAPPY mirrors but the noisy galvos (compared to my Cambridge, GSI and Medialas galvos). I noticed the inconsistent and sloppy application of glue used to mount the mirrors to the galvos (likely to cause the noise, imbalance and eventual premature failure of the galvos) . I measured 10% loss at 457 nm.
    I do not recall seeing any published specs on any adds you ran on Ebay or elsewhere at the time of the purchase so was going on faith that they would be reasonnable quality. Instead I was sadly disappointed in the overall quality of the system and when I asked for a refund was met with a unpalatable set of conditions aimed at extracting a profit at my cost.
    *** You wanted to charge me the cost of the item minus a restocking fee to cover time lost and any expenses incurred from customs duties, testing, recalibrating, repackaging, and reselling the goods. ***
    A quick test would have been sufficient to verify operation and I wouldn't have charged for that.
    I would have absorbed the costs (except for Customs duties, doubtfull any charges would have incurred) as the cost of doing business.
    I will never do business with you again after getting " The Business " from you.
    Now when it comes to Jian at the factory in China. The mirrors you supply are a dime a dozen and you don't care to buy better quality mirrors since it cuts into your profit margin. I recall your lame response in one of the threads on this site saying you had no way to test the mirror quality. All it takes is a laser source and a laser power meter , invest a bit in QA ,If you have such a department.

    In regards to the individuals who childishly tried to squelch my opinions by making fun of valid complaints, well you simply diminsh yourselves.

    Rick :-(
    Profile Redacted by Admin @ 04.24.2010

  2. #22
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    I didn't try to *squelch* your opinions.
    The best quality does not equate to the best value.
    We all wish we could afford the best quality, unfortunately when on a hobbyist budget value is what I aim for.

    I have a thread running about the mirrors on my DT40pro's needing to be replaced, I am happy with what I paid for though.

    Jim

  3. #23
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    Jan 2006
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    Cool

    Hi Rick;

    I'm not trying to take sides or anything, and I *don't* want to start a flame war here, but I do have a few honest questions about your complaints.

    Re: the poor mirror quality... As I understand it, the Cambridge scanners have dielectric mirrors that are rated for better than 95% reflectance at optical wavelengths. You said you measured 10% loss on the cheaper mirrors found on your Chinese-made galvos. So that's a difference of about 5%, right?

    Now, considering the huge price difference, is an additional 5% optical loss really that big of a deal to you? (Seriously - what does a set of Cambridge 6800's sell for these days? $2000? More? And the DT-40's sell for $550...)

    Also, the mirrors are not "a dime a dozen" as you posted... Junktronics just posted that the cost of a set of replacement mirrors for the Cambridge 6800 scanners is $75. That's nearly 15% of the total cost of a set of DT-40's... (Or, to put it another way, instead of being $550 a set, they'd be $625 per set with the better mirrors.) As for the cheaper galvos that Dave sells, the better mirrors would end up being a significant fraction of the total cost. And for what? 5% less loss? I really don't think it's worth it. Do you?

    As for the noise and balance issues, well - you may have a point there. I haven't used the galvos that Dave sells, so I'll take your word for it. (I'm assuming you're speaking of the 15K galvos here, right?) But again, with Dave's galvos we're talking about a *huge* price reduction vs the Cambridge units you're used to. (And an even larger price difference than with the DT-40's above.) So surely a drop in quality is to be expected, no?

    I would expect that anyone buying 15K galvos would be primarily interested in beamshows, not graphics, so the noise shouldn't be that much of an issue anyway. The DT-40 scanners, on the other hand, offer performance that is within 10% of the Cambridge galvos, at least according to the folks I've spoken with that have used both.

    Now, on the issue of accepting money orders or certified cashiers checks as cash, I completely agree with you. They should be accepted as such. While it is possible to forge one, it's pretty rare these days. (It's easier to forge a personal check.) However, I'm wondering if Dave might have been burned in the past, and that's why he delays shipping.

    Adam

  4. #24
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    given all the flack me and dave have had in post this post may come as a surprise for some.

    I happen to think the older 15ks were an awesome deal at an awesome price. I had quite a few problems at first dealing with the style change in galvo mount then i kept getting cracked mirrors right out of shipping........ but dave and company came through. Totally free replacement without me having to ship anything back.

    Now to compare, does the 15k put out a true 15k, depends on how u measure it, but if u measure it like cambrige or GSI measure it, deffinitely not. Butttttt they do perform better than any set of GSIs I have owned to include about 20 or so G-120 series closed loop galvos. I have never seen a GSI perform at the said 18k they are supposed to put out. I tried many different brand amps as well. Some people have reported to me that the GSIs are able to get 22k when tuned very carefully and I beleave them but for easy of use and reliablity i would pick the chinese galvos over a set of closed loop GSIs

  5. #25
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    Nov 2005
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    Im getting sick of this. It really seems to be going nowhere fast.. This will be my last post on the subject.......

    Rick,

    We most certainly had specs in the ads at the time you bought these from us. If you did not read the specs, it really is not our problem.

    Regarding cheques. My bank has a clearance period regardless of where the cheque comes from. I will not ship till the cheque has cleared. Simple as that. I am only covering my ass, believe me, i was not trying to insult your intelligence...

    Regarding refunds. Why should we be out of pocket because someone doesn't read the specs. In most cases we are more than happy to offer a refund, but after all the grief you caused, we really didn't feel very obliged...
    Last edited by dave; 03-13-2007 at 23:52.
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  6. #26
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    Oct 2006
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    Central Florida
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    Question

    Um... I'll try to get us back on topic. Could these 20K sets be used on an ILDa controller? Just if someone wanted to throw them up on poplescan or something for beams but want a lil more than just DMX control.

  7. #27
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    Cheers Aaron.

    Yeah, these can be directly interfaced to a ilda type connection...
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  8. #28
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    Aaron;

    DreamBeamz has several of these sets. If you watched the videos from that Club Eden gig (the one with the 1.7 watt all solid state white-light projector), you were looking at the output of those very galvos. (We were using Full-Auto to run that show.)

    So yeah - no problems running them from any ILDA-standard controller.

    Adam

  9. #29
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    Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I thought I'd add a note, I've had a great experience buying from and selling stuff to Laserlover since over 10 years ago, and aijii and dave has always come out right by me and their customers I've talked with.

    What I wanted to bring up was in terms of mirror quality. I figured a little bit of education in this thread might help. I want to state that the 10&#37; is a little bit of an unfair assessment given that the frequency of laser used to test is 457nm, which is past where standard "protected aluminum" front surface mirrors lose efficiency. With any other visible wavelength you should only see about 5-7% loss using standard "Protected Aluminum" front surface mirrors. This is in comparison to "Enhanced Aluminum" mirrors then you'll see 99.9% efficiency in the lower visible ranges but efficiency drops past 580nm (95% at 650nm). If you want to get power at the deep blue-purple wavelengths using aluminum, one would need to get special UV treated mirrors. I don't think this can happen near the $200 price point... Also there's nothing wrong with aluminum if the laser <1W.

    P.S. GS-120's only work well on turbotrack brand amps... Any other amp and you won't see the speed people claim.

  10. #30
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    Good to know, no one ever told me Does this even include GSI amps. Even those are not good enough for 18k?

    Quote Originally Posted by yaddatrance View Post
    P.S. GS-120's only work well on turbotrack brand amps... Any other amp and you won't see the speed people claim.

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