Scannermax 506s

[The_Doctor]

Well, I think that if we get company people here because they like to discuss ideas in detail, then we're lucky to have them. After all, this is what PL was for, to get some merging between the wasteland and the ivory towers. Trying to divide that by either sending them away by banning them, or by making it intolerable for them to spend time here, is a footshoot no-one here should contemplate doing, other than to explore the idea until they see its magnitude of error.

Moving swiftly on....
I have an idea for the 60° beam path idea that may resolve a few difficulties with it, and look damn cool into the bargain.

Put the X scanner flat on the floor, as close as it can get. Instead of centering the mirror on 45°, rotate it 15° further so it centres at a shallower slope.

Put the Y scanner a mm further away than usual above the X scanner, and rotate it 15° so the scan-centre points 30° downward.

Build the entire case wall of the front of the projector at this same 30° angle.

Direct the RGB beam down 30° with a single mirror onto the X mirror. This will be easy because you only have to tilt it in one axis.

Explore my earlier posts to save me from bloating this one.

What you get is a projector that can pass a 4.5mm beam at 45° scan angle off quarter-inch wide mirrors, if you're lucky and careful enough with mounts and optics, where only 3.5 mm beam width was previously possible at that scan angle with same mirrors.

You also get the following nice advantages:
A cool look to the projector, which will either rear up slightly to point forward, or when oriented level, will point slightly downwards, and when placed resting in storage will have a natural dust-preventing angle to its front window to keep it clean with no additional protection.
The X and Y scanner, both still being horizontal with respect to the base plate, can be cooled easily in a beefy mounting block, so this scheme doesn't just allow 60° beam paths for low-heat scanners, it will now also work for CT6215 and others that need lots of heat conduction.
Because the difference between mounts may be as simple as exactly how far above the X scanner the Y scanner hole is drilled, they could be made optionally for various angles, 90°, 75°, 60°, or even as low as 50° if you want thin beams at even wider scan angles, or fatter beams at narrower angles, in both cases using smaller mirrors than you usually need. Adapting the down-steering of beam into X mirror will be as simple as aligning a dichro, using the same method whatever scanner mount angles you choose.

[helium]

There's enough soap operas on TV......let's see what the scanners can do!

[absolom7691]

Andy and Edison. Most hobbyists could not afford 9/10s of this equipment 15 years ago. Hobbyists can afford it now because things are getting cheaper. That is going to impact the pro community because now, hobbyists can operate (with equipment) at the pro level. Does that make him a pro? No but it puts the possibility in his hands. To say that cheap laser gear is ruining the industry and that cheaper prices doesn't help, that is one thing. But to turn right around and say that this community is no longer for the hobbyist, sorry but that is straight bullshit. You cannot have action without reaction. It has to go one way or the other, cheaper or pro guys with deep pockets. I am still one to believe that the art of the show lies with the laserist, not the gear.

Steve, I thank you for helping out all of us noobs, time after time. Please continue because I know I am not the only one when I say it is greatly appreciated. I look forward to your results.

[mophead]

The whole hobby/business discussion is lacking one key thing. Hobbyists might make a few bucks on the side, but are still at a loss at the end of the day. Businesses are in business to make money, no ifs/ands/buts about it. It is common and normal for businesses to make money and help people (I do --it's not lasers either).

The key thing missing is the folks that do not own a business, but own a JOB. Owning/running a business is a headache which should be compensated. I really would hate to be a person whom owns a job (eg - they barely scrape by, Friday to Friday)

Of course the goal is to make a living out of it but i,m not there yet. Close, very close but not completely.

So which is it? You aren't in it for the money, just for the help, OR, are you in it for the money?

[Pangolin]

I've got an insight I'd like to share. Running a company isn't actually much fun.

Well said Laserist! I helped my wife start a hair salon in July, 2001 (just a few months before 9/11). There were many months when she went without a paycheck, although she was at the salon, styling hair and managing the business every day. I also came in weekly to do accounting, manage the computers and all of the technical aspects (air filters and things that need to be maintained monthly) and never took a penny in salary. By 2003 we had increased the size of the salon to 3200 square feet and had 30 employees! The hair business is not a terribly profitable business. Karen did it just because she wanted a nice place to work for herself and her friends and wanted a nice place for her clients to come. I did it just to help her out. The salon is still in business today, which is a testament to what we started...

Regarding what Edison said about SafetyScan lenses (a funny thing to pick on), can someone in the world do exactly what Edison does at a price lower than what Edison is charging? Likely! Especially after seeing how Edison does things. It seems easier to make money from someone else's idea than it is to develop something from scratch on your own. Regarding these lenses, indeed (and surprisingly) it took a full year from the time we started doing initial testing until the time we had something that we can offer for sale. These bastards were particularly tricky, especially to get the cut polished to the point where (when angled properly) it doesn't interfere with the laser scanning, and to get that degree of polish correctly on every lens takes a surprising amount of manual labor! So this is a product that looks simple and seems like it would be inexpensive to make, but really isn't either. Believe me, the complexity surprises us too! But no, I'm not going to be able to drive a Lamborghini any time soon because of sales of SafetyScan lenses .

Regarding what Edison said about outsourcing to China, I am happy to say that our scanners and actuators are made right in our office in Orlando, by people who are going to engineering school at University of Central Florida. I'm proud to be able to say that and do that. We're doing our part to balance the trade deficit, being one of the only companies selling software, electronics, and motors TO the Chinese!

Regarding my motivation for hanging out with hobbyists, I have said it many times before. I do this because that's where I started myself. In 1986 when I did my College Theses on scanners, I also volunteered at a local planetarium where I helped repair and then improve their equipment, and hone my own skills. Since that time we've been fortunate enough to make a business out of it, selling software and scanner amplifiers whose roots actually started in that planetarium! Since that time I have attended every single major Photon Lexicon event (and some minor ones) and every single LaserFreak event (German equivalent to Photon Lexicon) too. In most cases I don't even bring items with me to sell, but rather DO bring items to give away, such as T-shirts and DVDs.

Some of the folks have mentioned how prices have come down. Some of this can be traced to my own work, as I help companies bring out their own products, behind the scenes and at NO cost to them!

I do all of this because of what Dr. Stephen Covey calls an "abundance mentality" (which is the opposite of a "scarcity of mentality"). Stated briefly, what Andy and Edison is exhibiting is a "scarcity mentality", with the idea being that if fewer people owned lasers, that would be a good thing. Well if fewer people owned lasers, PL and Laser Pointer Forums wouldn't be where it is today! Also, if there are fewer laser shows, then laser shows would be less popular. It would mean that actually there would be FEWER sales for Edison, and FEWER people asking for laser shows to be done by Andy!

Everyone in the world should read Dr. Stephen Covey's books: The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People and also The 8th Habit, in which he discusses the UPWARD SPIRAL (not downward spiral that Andy and Edison alludes to).

Anyway folks, this thread has gotten a bit off the track of a review of the '506 scanners. Steve saw them in action in our office and will no doubt be reporting more. Norty also has played with them too. We'll see if we can get them into the hands of a few others before long too. But the bottom line is, we believe that scanners with good performance and a low cost actually helps people, not hurts people, because we believe that more people enjoying laser shows is better for everyone, not worst.

Best regards,

William Benner

[norty303]

I'l actually have mine out on a gig this weekend alongside 2 sets of DT30's so I'll see if i can get some pics and video.

I've had 'The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People' on our bookshelf for a few years now (and some of his other books) because my Missus wanted to read them. I think I'll have to actually pull it out and have a read!

[edison]

So which is it? You aren't in it for the money, just for the help, OR, are you in it for the money?

Both, i,m in for the money because i run a bussiness. But if someone think that its the drive they clearly don,t know what kind of person i am.

I also help people even when it cost me money or parts i really don,t care as long as i can keep finance the development proces of what i,m working on. Now you could say i,m running a hobby instead of a bussiness but i believe that with hard work, giving excellent service to customers and putting every penny back into the bussiness in the end it pays off. During that time every customer that for example buys a module or something else will recieve info about new things and if i can upgrade or improve their former purchased module i will do that for minimal cost. THAT is what i call helping people. I don,t have to do that since the module works fine as it is but i think that once the customer spends that kind of money on your behalf you can at least help him to the latest improvements. You should always go the extra mile even when it sometimes cost you money when you have a bussiness.

What i don,t do is represents myself as a company that " Helps" the hobbymarket to cheaper products. Sure most people see that as a form of helping because they bennefit from it but lets keep things real. Pangolin makes money and has bennefit from the hobbymarket and the hobbyists have bennefit from pangolin. Many people say that pangolin helps them with every issue that they have when it comes to software or something else. That is not helping , that is called service and you payed for it already since that is in the price of the purchased software package (when it concerns quickshow , beyond or what not).

When you buy a car and the cardealer says you got a great deal and you believe that then you are really a fool.

I just have a different interpretation from the word "helping". One thing is sure when every schoolboy can afford a 5 watt cheap china box accidents will happen. Great that everything is dirt cheap!!!

The whole hobby/business discussion is lacking one key thing. Hobbyists might make a few bucks on the side, but are still at a loss at the end of the day.

And why do you think that is? Because every schoolboy can buy a projector nowadays for dirt cheap that does things for a free beer and some traveling money and ruins the market. If people would ask a reasonable amount of money for doing shows they could invest in safetylenses and doing a safetycourse. So we are back where we started. Lets make high powered projectors dirt cheap and available to everyone. I can see the headlines already: 15 year old boy blinds 10 people with lasershow........

[edison]

It seems easier to make money from someone else's idea than it is to develop something from scratch on your own.

I totally agree!!! Bill, just to make things clear for everyone could you confirm once more that the Safetylens is totally your own idea?

In most cases I don't even bring items with me to sell, but rather DO bring items to give away, such as T-shirts and DVDs.

Oh great so you give away some free T-shirts, lett me guess Pangolin written all over it? We call that in europe promoting a bussiness. People instantly like you when you give aways free stuff that always works....... Your a smart bussiness man i give you that. Why not giving away safety lenses instead? That way you promote pangolin and make the laserworld a little saver. Now that is what i call a win-win situation.

[The_Doctor]

I don't know what it is with ideas... I come up with many of those, but like Hugh Laurie, I think that the execution of the idea counts for vastly more. I could lay claim to the 60° beam path angle thing given that I dreamed it up on my own in a silent room late at night thinking that all laser systems I'd ever heard of used right-angles that weren't making best use of limited mirror area. I won't though. I decided I'd rather post details the moment someone seriously interested in making good stuff for sale was interested. After all, it's probably not patentable on its own, and patents guard the manufacture (for ten years) but not the idea, which is better served by copyright when in written form. The way I see it, if someone makes good cheap scanners with mounts that work how I think they can to optimise clear aperture, then it saves me the trouble of executing the idea. Good luck to whoever does the work, says I.

If ideas were unique, science wouldn't have a long history, as it does, of multiple risings of the same invention. Few of these were theft or copy, and in most cases we only see one 'winner' because contrary to popular freemarket doctrine, people actually find it hard to choose. Even when they have a choice of ONE, it is often not the best choice. VHS vs Betamax being a case in point.

I'm not sure that Bill's upward or downward spiral exists as such, or at least, there is another way to look at this: People operate on the scales they choose. After all, we can't be in more than one place at once. For example, it is possible to buy an SD card logger for 45 bucks from Sparkfun Electronics, and some other firms. Equally it is possible to buy one for 450 bucks that does little more, and often less. Year after year this remains true, and despite any notions we may have about the market place, firms at both these levels, and no doubt others, persist in staying in business.

[Pangolin]

Bill, just to make things clear for everyone could you confirm once more that the Safetylens is totally your own idea?

We're way off the topic of this thread. However, I can prove that I came up with the idea of a "split diopter" to be used for this purpose more than a decade ago, to be used at a theme park installation in Orlando. I can prove it because I applied for a provisional patent on the idea at that time. Later I got involved with Jeremy, and we both found that my idea of the split diopter had a problem -- a surprising problem whereby when the laser crosses the split in the lens it causes all kinds of interference and undesirable artifacts. So Jeremy and I jointly explored different ways to make the base idea better.

It was Jeremy's idea to cut the lens in half -- an idea I didn't think would work (because what's the difference between a single lens with two focal lengths, and a lens cut in half) but after testing, we found that it did work! Then we spent another six months actually making the concept of a "lens cut in half" manufacturable in a consistent and affordable way.

So that's the whole story, and many people on PL already know this story because they've been following the progress throughout the years...

Bill