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The PT 30 and 40 scanners I have had for about one year both have the 7mm x14mm typical "trimmed corner" octagonal mirrors. They will produce a good laser media test pattern and some rounding of the 2 dimensional grid (the one demonstrated by Bill in the video) at 24K and 30K respectively. These are operating at 30 degrees vertical and 40 degrees horizontal (a rectangular screen).
Senior Member
as soon as those credit card size drivers are ready these are going to fly off the shelves.
Senior Member
I need to build two more DI projectors and I would prefer to use these. I am already saving up for these.Originally Posted by kecked
If you're the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room.
Senior Member
I agree. When you can simply call Pangolin or Scanner Max or whatever and say "please send me a pair with the big mirrors and the cables and the angled mounting block ... no make that two pair". There is going to be a feeding frenzy.as soon as those credit card size drivers are ready these are going to fly off the shelves.
Senior Member
Glad you're having fun with the new scanners Norty! We were pretty pleased to see the results with those DT drivers.
The "bendy lines" and the cause is described in my Projector Connections Article found here.Oh, and I also had some image quality issues (bendy lines on LaserMedia pattern, small Z kinks that existed regardless of size) which I traced back to having both grounds connected to the feedback pins on each amp. Lifted one of the grounds, everything nice and straight again! So scanfail related again.... ho-hum
Norty, send me an email about the problems you had and solved and we'll include notations in a "tips and tricks" type article or the manual that we include along with the scanners.
A company contacted us, asking what we can do with 5mm square beams. They gave me the dimensions of the mirrors that they were making themselves. These were the largest mirrors that I had ever seen used on 6800-style scanners (almost all scanners made outside the US for lightshow applications are "6800-style scanners"). Our mechanical engineer made a spreadsheet showing what their mirror set would do and what our mirror set will do. You can see it here.
This is not an artist rendition or wishful thinking or "what our clients tell us they are doing". They are screen shots from engineering software and will show EXACTLY what happens in real life.
If you pay close attention, you'll also notice the size difference between the shafts, and how well tiny shafts used on competitors' scanners will hold a mirror and how our large 3mm shafts hold a mirror.
The mirrors Norty received are 1mm thick and made from Silicon (not glass). It looks like a dark metal/ceramic material. One of the benefits is that there is no way that light will go "through" the mirror. Silicon has anywhere between double and quadruple the stiffness of optical glasses (depending on stress direction) while having similar mass. This helps with the "rotor dynamics" discussed in this video.
Bill
Last edited by Pangolin; 01-04-2014 at 23:29.
Senior Member
Bill,
Silicon, nice! I assume that is another reason the coatings work so well.
Thanks for the engineering page. To be fair, are you comparing the "competitor's" mirrors held in a 90 degree orthogonal block vs an optimized, angled block for the Scanner Max scanners?
Will the available mirror sets for the 506 and the Saturn series be interchangeable? You suggested I might be interested in say a Saturn I vs a Saturn 5 based on the available mirrors. Are the different Saturn scanners mechanically or electrically different or are they only differentiated by the mirror sets and amplifier tuning?
Senior Member
I'm comparing what the customer thought that they wanted to do (before being convinced by our report) and what just about every competitor in the world does, to how we would solve the problem. We try to take a "total solution" approach. We didn't just stick our re-engineered mirrors on 6800-style scanners. We re-invented everything!
Well yes and no. Our mirror sets are really easy to change requiring essentially no tools or special fixtures. In fact, I supplied a spare pair of slightly smaller mirrors to Norty, "just in case"...
Perhaps you misunderstood (easy to do on a forum)... I didn't suggest Saturn 1 "based on available mirrors". I suggested Saturn 1 because it will give the absolute fastest performance for 1 to 3mm beams, with 3mm being the highest for this scanner (but also what most people are delivering, whether they know it or not -- if you want, I will attach another report showing yet other competitors who believe that they are moving big beams, but the reality is 3mm beams at 40 degrees). If you have larger than 3mm beams then I'll suggest either our Saturn 3 (which goes up to 6mm) or our Saturn 5 (which goes up to 8mm). It really depends on what you need. Again, we'd want to look at the big picture and come up with a total solution.
All scanners in the Saturn family are electrically compatible and use the same connector. They are also similar in size (except Saturn 5 which is pretty long). The Compact 506 "Pro" uses the same connector as Saturn as well, since the connector is really married to the position sensor board.
Bill
Senior Member
Bill,
I understand your presentation to your customer regarding a systems approach to his 5mm square beams. Here, you were discussing your mirror sets in this thread and I was asking if I read the presentation correctly. It does look as if in addition to the optimized mirror dimensions your designer incorporated a tilted scanner block to reduce the angle foreshortening that occurs with strict 90 degree orientation. If I am correct then I am glad because I think this should become much more common for scanner mounting.
The reason I asked about the interchangeability of the Saturn series is that where the useable clear apertures overlap (and Cambridge does this to a large extent as in 3-6mm for model 1 and 4-7mm for model 2) would it be better to order the Saturn operating near the bottom of its aperture range than near the top?
Senior Member
Hehe. I am the designerIf you meant our mechanical engineer, he executes my vision.
We've been doing it for more than 28 years. In the planetarium where I first worked, I implemented a full 45 degree set-back. For straight projection, 15 degrees is more practical. In any event, this technique has been available to everyone at all points in time. All someone would have had to do was think about the problem...
Saturn 1, 3, and 5 all do 3mm. The difference is how fast and how wide and how much power is required from the power supply. We'd get into a discussion to pick the best scanner and mirror set for the particular job, given the totality of the system requirements.
Bill
Last edited by Pangolin; 01-05-2014 at 14:05.
I've been looking around but haven't actually seen anything referencing even a ballpark price. I've seen vague comments such as "easily affordable by most PL'ers". I've see "competitive". I realize there isn't a final ready to ship sort of product at this point - (or at least I don't think so) but, within a few hundred dollars is there an "approximate" cost established yet? Say for example for the 506's with large mirrors, not unlike what Norty received? Are we talking for example $500? $1000? $2000?
I've watched the videos, read through everything on the scannermax site, looked at everything that's been posted but, just trying to get a sense of what we're going to be talking about here - if it's known.
I get that 506's are cheaper than the higher end Saturn line and that you (Pangolin) are looking to sell a "solution" best suited to the customers needs but, I'm curious about the crass money question. My perceived "need" is not so much speed but widest possible angle, as I'm dealing with short throw, rear screen graphics projection on scrims and eventually will want three sets for three matched projectors. I don't recall beam size but for sake of argument, lets say 3mm.
Thanks!
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