Scannermax 506s

[edison]

Exactly. Paying a little a bit more that triples the lifetime and gives less headaches would be best. That is also why i bought a makita instead of some cheap 50 bucks one. I want things that last since i rent equipment and that works both ways. The customer is happy since it performs like expected and for me its less work in maintenance

[Bradfo69]

Edison, I agree with you and understand your point. I get the whole "paying extra for quality" thing and I, too, own a number of Makita hand tools. But by the same time, there are realities of economics I am faced with. By definition, I could be considered pro since I do perform a number of paid shows and that number is increasing as word spreads but... there is "pro" who is charging and there is "pro" that's charging on a pro level. I'm not doing Superbowl half time shows, or Lady Gaga concerts or the Black Eyed Peas performance on the Grammy's. They're using OPSL, Cambridge, and Lord knows what else with stratospheric prices to purchase and crazy money for the shows they produce. I'm doing weddings and proms and things for 100-400 people at a mere fraction of the prices the "pros" are charging so therefore can't justify the kind of money the "pros" spend on equipment.

I can recoup the cost of a moderate laser projector in two or three weddings. If I bought OPSL, suddenly we're up to twenty or thirty weddings. My market will not tolerate a several hundred percent increase in the cost of a show and I'd sit around waiting a long time for that one event that might pay many times as much so, yes... I need to be frugal. And, maintain that balancing act between quality and actually being able to pay the equipment off.

So it's not an issue of not wanting to "pay" for quality... I'd love to be able to but, there is only so much you can spend.

The other point is this is an ever changing and ever lowering cost of technology. Say I took your advice and bought a $50,000 laser projector knowing that in order to pay for it, I'd need 8 shows a year for 6 years to pay it off. It's entirely possible that three years in, the technology/quality and that $50,000 laser is now surpased by units selling for $18,000. It rapidly becomes obsolete. Look at gas versus solid state a few years back or, 473 versus 445. Or now 520 diodes versus 532 dpss. So yeah.... I may have a need to shop around for the best deal and not just automatically overpay more than I should because it's got a 10% better performance.. or service life... or warranty... Maybe 1.2 mR is tolorable as compared to .8mR for twice the price at that point.

It's a balancing act and, may not entirely be not "wanting" to be able to afford a higher level of quality as you're often quoted as saying.

[White-Light]

My son runs Tech Ingredients and ships/sells computer hardware. He always opened my Thorlabs boxes and left me the optics and the pretzels...now HE ships out snacks with the hard drives!

Some UK companies include a sweet or the better ones a snack size packet of eg Haribo.

eg. http://www.partydelights.co.uk/sweet...ductID=SWEE131

For 10-12p (probably 10-12 cents US), it's cheap enough.

Must admit, that although it doesn't consciously affect my buying choices, - I wouldn't buy from a retailer because they included Haribo, but equally it is nice to get a packet of Haribo.

I guess from a marketing POV that's probably the kicker although whether there's a subconscious effect, who knows. Maybe if you buy regular supplies to your lab, you'd consciously buy the one who supplies sweets.

However, either way, it does kind of makes unpacking doubly satisfying. I just wonder how long it can continue though before some religious radical decides it's a good way to deliver substances to people....

[norty303]

I can recoup the cost of a moderate laser projector in two or three weddings

You're overcharging then, in terms of a regular equipment supply/hire models. Unless you are also figuring your 'tech time' [engineer rates] in the charges and counting that as paying for kit too.

Most bigger businesses that rent equipment, either 'dry' or 'wet' look to recoup kit costs between 10 and 20 hires (5% of cost is often a typical figure in the PA world)

However, as you say, things move quickly in the laser tech world. A PA system is going to still be as effective and 'current' (and trendy in some cases!) in 3 years time. Some laser tech becomes 'old' in that same time period.

Also, paying more money doesn't always get you a better product. In fact, there are some absolute bargains out there [well kept secrets I like to think of them ] and thats where competitive advantage comes into play...

P.S. I buy spares from Charles Hyde and Sons because of the sweetie bags they include...

[edison]

Brad , i understand what you mean but a wedding is just a small event that requires not that high power. Investing in equipment is a matter of choice, you can save up for a makita or buy the cheapest one you can afford at that moment. On the long run the makita will last allot longer. Buying a projector is basically the same but you need to be able to upgrade it because a year later the market has moved to a higher power. But in a nutshell the lowend market in sound and light aswell as lasers is totally "rotten" since everyone is trying to beat on price. This is because most of them look at as a "hobby" and do things just for "fun". Now in my book it will never be a hobby but a small bussiness aside their daily job. And when you need to use your monthly paycheck to finance this hobby or small bussiness as i would call it there is clearly something wrong. That is also why there are so many stop doing things because there is not enough cashflow to keep the train going. The anoying thing is that people keep complaining that things are to expencive but the problem as we all know is somewhere else. Admitting that is the first step..... Most people complain about the cost of driving a car, living expences or what else in live is needed.Complaining doensn,t help, getting more money in is the only way forward. I,m aware that its a struggle but i believe that with reliable and good equipment its the only way to save costs in the long run and keep customers satisfied. Losing one show because equipment fails is also losing that customer and that customer goes with his next Even that might be a 3 or for digit job to someone else. I don,t think allot of people realise this as they only look at things like a "hobby"........

Back to the subject, it would be nice to do a comparison side by side of the Eightonlight scanners and the 506. I don,t think the ones from eigtonlight come close but you never know........

[norty303]

Out of interest, where are all these people who complain stuff is too expensive?
Sure, everyone likes a good deal, but at the end of the day, we simply buy the stuff presented before us. There seems to be a gaping chasm between the cheap crap and the very high end that isn't filled. Why?

Take DPSS lasers for instance - I asked about what the good stuff was on the other thread and I got mega-bucks answers, which seems to suggest that there is no reasonable alternative to DPSS that sucks.

However, as we all know, China can build stuff that doesn't suck - and usually cheaper than the equivalent Western product, so where are these units? E.g. CNI MUST do a good DPSS green that is better/more stable than the current offerings surely, they are selling to industry as well as laser 'hobbyists'. So, how do we buy these if they aren't presented to us?

If money was no object, what could Bridge/Laserwave offer? Or are we seeing the pinnacle of their development currently?

[edison]

Out of interest, where are all these people who complain stuff is too expensive?

Talk with anyone that sells a good quality product in the lowend market. The first reaction from any customer after hearing the price is : too expencive i can buy it from china cheaper......

Sure, everyone likes a good deal, but at the end of the day, we simply buy the stuff presented before us.

A good deal is only when the mw per euro is better then what china can do at least that is what most people think. But when you have 2x or 3x the brightness with a good system and can grab also the advertisement display events like logo,s on buildings its is worth it. A good deal on the long therm is buying RGBlasersystems or arctos system because the quallity is allot better and last allot longer. The majority complains that they can,t afford that but in reallity its just an investment on the long therm so it evens out in the end. Buying cheap from china is just a short therm solution but the majority thinks otherwise. After 3 years most people are gone and stopped doing shows because there equipment fails and they don,t have enough funds other then their paycheck and some beer money to keep their equipment up to date.

If money was no object, what could Bridge/Laserwave offer? Or are we seeing the pinnacle of their development currently?

Companies like CNI , laserwave, viasho and others have plenty of cashflow to develop the best of the best but they have a different way of thinking. You buy a couch for 5 years and so it needs to be a certain quality before its worn down. In china they say when its worn after a year well buy a new one. You can argue forever with them but that won,t help. That is why European companies like Philips went to china but got burnt since they simply can,t get the message over that products should be manufactured with a certain quallity level. Drive to the nearest garbage dump and you will find 90% of is household goods bought by the wive and made in china that we don,t need at all......

Don,t get me wrong that there are quite a few good chinese companies like Able for example but that is only because david thinks European.

[norty303]

Talk with anyone that sells a good quality product in the lowend market

Surely they are targetting the wrong market, and so the reaction is expected?

That is why European companies like Philips went to china but got burnt since they simply can,t get the message over that products should be manufactured with a certain quallity level.

Regarding chinese manufacturing, I think you are grossly wrong to make that statement. There are many good products being manufactured by Western companies in China, with excellent QC and proven track records.

[WookieBoy]

Phillips have 6 factories in China... at least!
I can pretty much guarantee you own something made in one of their factories.
Chauvet Pro range is mostly made in one of these factories and they're pretty good quality now... they were ropey 5-6 years ago, but I think you're living in the past if you think everything made in China is cheap junk!

As a business model for a country, it's pretty much what Japan did 30 - 40 years ago.
You think Japanese electronics are junk?

Actually, most of them are now mAde in a Phillips factory in China or S.Korea...

[edison]

Sure there are a few that changing there way of doing things like Able but the majority produce stuff in low quallity is cheap and doesn,t last long. I have seen many people raving about different brands from china and 3 months later they post a thread that they have troubles with their green, scanners or have other issues. They complain about shipping costs, that the communication is bad etc. Suddenly that deal wasn,t that great at all at least that is how i look at things.

If you have to rely on your equipment i don,t think its a good way to start a small bussiness. I guess i have a different idea about quallity and for sure weither doing lasershows is a hobby or a small bussiness.


The reallity is that the majority looses interest when they have to keep financing their equipment from their monthly paycheck and will disapear eventually. So unless people start seeing things more like a bussiness instead of a hobby things will not change. And also not their view on price.........

The new 506 will probably be better then what is available now and also more affordable. If every company uses in china and that might happen sooner then later just like with quickshow more schoolguys will be able to buy a few system for companies like laserworld or OPT. That means more competition and even less money to earn for doing a show. The guys that bought RGBlasersystems and other high quallity equipment will have even more trouble of getting their investment back.........