Scannermax 506s

[planters]

Phnenix did not respond to my inquiry, so I'm glad to here this information. The EMS 4000's that I have are equipped with 14mm minor axis mirrors, so say 9mm aperture and will operate well at 17-18k over a 35 x 25 degree field. these cost something like $1,350 US. Did you get a price for the Phenix system?

[norty303]

On their website, the mount for 506 are now X-orthogonal, like common "Chinese" scanners (take a look at the new datasheets from August '14). Do you think it is the reason why the beam aperture reduced to 4-4.5mm for large mirrors ? ... And the reason could be to intentionally "decrease" performance of 506 to let a bigger gap between Saturn 1/3/5 series and these "more affordable" scanners ?

I wonder if its to reduce the number of mount variants they need to stock/maintain.

Bill was telling me they were experimenting with lots of different size mirrors, and each set was going to need a specific mount to get the setback and spacing correct.

Maybe, for certain mirror options they'll just use a regular mount with a wide enough spacing for a few different options.

edit: actually, its only the 4mm square beam mount thats changed. The 3mm round still looks the same.
My 5mm square mounts are set back too, but they may not be a 'standard' size option.

[Pangolin]

edit: actually, its only the 4mm square beam mount thats changed. The 3mm round still looks the same.
My 5mm square mounts are set back too, but they may not be a 'standard' size option.

Hehe. Guys, nothing has "changed". It's only that new *documents* are being added to the web site, as those new documents are developed! Our mechanical engineer Ryan's time is split between engineering new products (including new scanner and new mirror variants) and documenting what was done in the past.

Regarding the mount styles you see there, we do have a kind of "universal mount" concept. The X-parts can be fitted to many Y parts. So we have historically had a Universal X mount with Setback, that can be used with our many mirror offerings, and now we have a separate Universal X mount without setback.

We've also developed a new mirror made nominally for 4mm square beams, but we've also documented the other beam diameters (and sizes) that will fit onto this mirror, and the scan angle you can achieve with them. (I think it makes it easiest for clients to really know these things...)

Once Ryan has some time, he will make engineering drawings for the mount that Norty, Planters and a few others here on PL have, and then they will be added to the web site too. (Up until now we haven't treated that as a priority because the beam entrance height and other dimensions are really similar to our standard 3mm offering.)

By the way, a PL member sent me mirrors from Thor Labs to mount, and to be used with the C506. These mirrors will handle a 12mm beam. (Yes, that's right 12mm BEAM -- not to be confused that the mirror is 12mm wide.) These mirrors with mounts have around 20 times the inertia of the Compact 506, and the mirrors have around 1/6th the weight of the Compact 506! I have them running with a set of Amps that Steve sold him. We have them tuned to around 20K. My intention is to make a video showing them running -- not only test patterns, but complete graphic laser shows. (I would have done that already, but Aaron packed the video camera away in preparation for his automobile trek to Photon Lexicon, so Ryan and I will make the video tomorrow using iPhones...)


Bill

For the first time ever, I have ignored someone here on PL. Long overdue, actually.

Hehe, yup, I beat you to it on that one months ago! Life's too long to spend it reading posts of curmudgeons...

[Pangolin]

Here's a picture of our C506 and the mirrors I mentioned above. The X mirror is 19mm wide, so it will reflect 10.8mm beams at 40 degrees optical, or 12.2mm beams at 20 degrees optical.

I put a Cambridge 6860 next to it, as it would be this size scanner that would typically be used to drive mirrors this large. Because of camera perspective, the mirror on the Cambridge scanner looks larger, but it's actually a bit smaller...



The mirrors are 2 grams. C506 is 12 grams. Cambridge 6860 is around 240 grams. In surveying scanners and mirrors around here, the most favorable configuration I found was one where the scanner was only 50 times heavier than the mirror. In most cases, the scanner is 100 times the weight of the mirror. C506 is 6 times the weight of these mirrors... Because of this, C506 appears to be the lightest (and probably smallest) way to move beams of this size.

We hacked this X-Y mount together just for a test...

[Pangolin]

I'm uploading the video now. You'll be able to watch it here:
http://youtu.be/FYg8IhvQH6c

To me it's pretty impressive, but I'd like to get your opinion.

AHA one more point. Neither the scanners nor the amplifiers are mounted to any kind of heat sink and the power supply is just the ordinary power supply inside this Kvant projector.

[MIIKKKLLLL]

Hello Planters,

Price for 1x set is 380 USD. The set includes scanners, drivers, mount, all needed cables and power supply.

● Y Mirrors size: 14*23mm
● X Mirrors size: 16*14mm
● High quality mirrors (coating for 400-700nm wavelength)

I have a project in mind who would need these scanners, but it is planned only by the end of the year.

A test performed by yourself could be very useful .



REgarding the Compact 506 and the video posted above, well... this is very impressive .

[Pangolin]

Miikkkllll:

Secant of 55 degrees (nominal 45 degrees plus 10 degrees mechanical, 20 degrees optical, or 40 degrees optical peak to peak) is 1.743.
Reciprocal of 1.743 is 0.57.
0.57 * 14mm mirror width = 7.98mm maximum beam diameter, if the mirrors are perfect, and do not have any chamfer or "chipping" around the edges.

So such scanners above can reflect beam smaller than 8mm over a maximum of 40 degrees optical, but this ignores the length of the Y mirror and says nothing about scan speeds (which, as I hope we've learned, always must be verified...)

When I get into the office tomorrow, Ryan and I will mock up this mirror set and see what it will really do. My guess is that the Y mirror is too short to project the full 40 degrees, but we'll see. Sometimes things surprise me

Bill

[tribble]

That is quite impressive; those 506's will certainly swing those paddles effectively. :-) I'm curious what happens when you SHRINK the mirror... let's say I need only 1.5 or 2mm beam support; do they get faster?

[Pangolin]

That is quite impressive; those 506's will certainly swing those paddles effectively. :-) I'm curious what happens when you SHRINK the mirror... let's say I need only 1.5 or 2mm beam support; do they get faster?

Actually "faster" is more of a function of scanner tuning than anything else. Actually I could have tuned those scanners and mirrors to 30K or faster. The real factor is "size at a given scan rate". Faster tuning reduces size by a square factor (double the scan speed means your scan angle is cut by a factor of four).

Also, one thing to realize is that the game is "system inertia" not really "mirror inertia". The C506 rotor inertia has 14mgm*cm2 inertia. Our standard 3mm mirrors are around 2.7mgm*cm2, so in that case, the total system inertia is only 16.7 (not much more than the 14 itself). So it means you could not really scan very much wider with no mirror, compared with our 3mm mirrors.

Bill

[dzodzo]

...doesn,t...that,s...i,m...

don't you have an apostrophe sign on your keyboard? these words are hard to read