FAA's take on private terminated outdoor shows?

[hitekvoop]

I heard the FAA likes to know about outdoor shows even if all beams are fully terminated. I'm wondering if anyone has ever heard of people getting into trouble over private backyard shows?

Anyone?

[gottaluvlasers]

Doing laser shows in your own back yard is fine. I assure you (even if this goes against the grain of what the "law" may say) that the FAA is *NOT* going to show up at your house wanting to fine you. I promise!!! *HOWEVER* if you are doing stupid, irresponsible shit "in your own back yard" and purposely aiming beams into the sky or worse- targeting aircraft- well, NOW you're being a dung hole and chances are the FAA is gonna come hunting for you. If you live extremely close to a heavy air traffic location of low flying aircraft (take off or landing zones) I would STRONGLY urge you (even if laser is relatively low powered i.e.- <5W) NOT to mess around.

Refer to the FAA Laser Zones for more information.

-Marc

[kecked]

funny how less than 5W is now low power

[sugeek]

You can do unterminated beams too a fellow PL'r was telling me about getting clearance to shoot 8W straight into the air (within a certain time window and with the airport towers having his phone number etc). It would be a good chance to talk to the local FAA person and get to know them for when you need to do another outdoor show for your floyd shows.

Now let the more experienced people speak!

-Adam

[The_Doctor]

Two threads here recently that talk about stuff relevant to this:
http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...rs-Laser-shows
http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...n-NES-emulator

Plenty of experienced input there, especially in that second one.

There are more, search for FAA and 'variance' and 'clearance' and 'terminated' to find them, plus clues for better searches.

[dsli_jon]

Hey Rick (..yes?

I heard the FAA likes to know about outdoor shows even if all beams are fully terminated. ..

Yes they do, indeed. BUT, you don't have to 'file a "7140", they won't do an 'airspace study' / issue a 'NOTAM' ('Notice to Airmen', Local Tracon, etc) etc, For a Terminated-gig, as you DO with an 'Open Air' show.. Marc is correct about 'no backyard show-regs', however, the 'governing principal' here is more about 'CYA'.. ie: *what if*, some-way, some-how, you even accidentally got some beams out into open-air / they got-reflected, etc, etc, and - some-way, some-how - it got into some Pilots' face.. (..No, I'm not gonna say OMGYOUCOULDCRASHTEHPLANE!!! - But.. ...IF that Pilot were to 'call it in' / file a report, the FAA certainly is not going to do anything to 'get yer back' if you didn't at least let them know, and the FBI decides to show up and stick a bunch of AR-15s up yer

..If you *had*, however, at-least emailed your Regional Airspace-Dude, and he / she replied and said 'Thank you for notifying us, have a safe show', etc, well, again, Now you've at least 'CYA'd, and you can - on paper - tell the FBI to go stick their AR-15s up their own

In fact, as-of last Oct. the FAA no-longer will issue even 'Pro-Co's the old 'LOD' (Letter of Determination.. basically the 'approval' letter..) when submitting for Terminated, Outdoor shows.. They just want us to send the Regional-specialist an email, with the same 'basic info' as was in the 7140 (Dates, Times, Lats/Longs/Az/El, On-site Contact info, etc) and they'll reply saying 'Thank you for notifying us, have a safe show' ..but, point-is, they DO still want notification, even-if terminated.. This-way, even *they* CTheirA..

There's a 'newer guy' that now-handles the Central Region (which TX is-in..) lemme know if you want the contact-info..

You can do unterminated beams too a fellow PL'r was telling me about getting clearance to shoot 8W straight into the air...

Hmm, well, I'm gonna 'let the FAA comment on that one'...

on 10/22/13 12:56 PM, Richard DOT Roberts AT faa DOT gov wrote:

[SNIP - ..long-form info about 'no longer issuing LODs for Terminated shos', as I summarized, above.. Bolds, mine..]

"Proponents are requested to notify the FAA when an event or research activity will be using a laser, whether terminated or unterminated. This is to ensure that air traffic facilities continue to receive information necessary to maintain situational awareness of activities in there areas of responsibility.

In addition, proponents are reminded that they assume full responsibility for the effects of lasers they operate in the National Airspace System. It is a violation of federal and some state statutes to interfere with crew members in the performance of their duties.

However, if you want to have a show unterminated, we will continue to process as outlined in Advisory Circular 70-1." ..aka, 'the 7140 process'..

..So, all I'm 'bolding-about' is that, yes, 'clearance for open-air shoots' - even just 'tests', can-be obtained, but.. Gonna have to be via 7140, and -IF- there's someone, out-there, that just 'up and contacted their local-tower', and they said 'where / when', and then 'sure', well.. that's not the 'norm'.

..this isn't a 'counter' to your post, just calling-out a bit of further 'clarification / qualification'.. The 'proper procedure', for any / all Open-Air excersizes / shows, is-to submit a 7140.
I attach one for the benefit of the class.

cheers..
j

[hitekvoop]

Thanks for the response, everyone. I assure you, that as a professional operator all safety systems would be in place. Accidentally getting beams into the air would be either 1. very difficult as a result of beam height and/or 2. shut down immediately upon observation.

It certainly couldn't hurt to lob a call into the local tower and leave my contact info.

Thanks for attaching the 7140, I'll certainly use it if I run into a difficult venue where beam termination is impossible.

-rick

[Laser Wizardry]

" 15 characters"

[dsli_jon]

Here in Arizona the state level pencil pushers still like to see...the 7140 and associated diagrams...

Indeed, I was more-reff'ing just from the 'FAA-perspective', only.. Still, one of those good 'best-practices' for any Sho-Co to just 'go ahead and do', as you've got to Google-Earth-it to get yer site Lats/Longs/Els/Az's, anyway.. And, really, they're not that big of a deal, especially when you can gleefully fill out the entire 'Calcs' section with "N/A (Terminated)"

Again, its all about CYA!... With a private backyard show... I'd sure want proof from some form of state or federal agency that they are aware of the show and do not object to it, in case a city or county level law enforcement person would stop by..

Yep, Amen to that.. And, for Rick, prolly still a good-idea in TX, with DHHS, too.. Only 'bolsters your Rep' with such-agencies.. Even if a 7140 was not "required" in this case, if you've got one, filled, *and* and an 'OK' email back from FAA-Central Reg., well then ol' Barney Fife ain't got a dol gon lick to say about it..

j