LOBO gun, has Brad ordered one :)

[DanG]

You know Adam, I have to disagree with you here.

The reason that our sub-MPE "incident" became known was not out of a sense of transparency, it was because someone started a flame on the laserist list which spilled over into the ILDA list. It was not educational, it was not self-policing, it was not even remotely professional... It was hashed out on and off the list because that is where it started. I cannot imagine that ILDA would have put out a release on the ILDA list had that all happened privately. What purpose does that serve other than to embarrass and shame a member? It seems that this was already done the following day for the benefit of the attendees and I don't know what a wider dissemination would have accomplished.

A previous poster mentioned that Lobo should be "sanctioned." I don't know what that means and I do not believe that ILDA's board is empowered to do anything of that ilk in our bylaws. The closest thing we have is a "Letter of Reprimand" which can be issued by the board following an ethics complaint, investigation and recommendation of action to the board by the ethics committee. I doubt that such a tool would be appropriate in this case given Lobo's complete and wholly appropriate response to the incident. These kinds of punitive actions are really reserved for very serious occasions which, in my opinion, would generally include either a chain of events, or consistent or extreme indifference to safety standards. This was a one-time incident, and Lobo had a number of safety measures in place, including a guard, which in my view does not rise to the level of consistent or extreme indifference. Did the safety measures work as designed? No... but that is what led them to conduct a review and make adjustments as they should have done.

It is worth noting that the bylaws specifically forbid ILDA from giving publicity to a disciplinary action such as a suspension.

I should also mention that ILDA does not have any policies of which I am aware for making public notifications of such events. Please realize that such notifications would carry much more weight, and would need to be "official," than a discussion following a random posting on a e-mail list. issuing them should only be done under a standardized procedure with a rubric to determine when a release should be issued, to whom is should be sent and what it should say. This is an issue of both basic fairness and legal liability for the association.

I see where people are coming from here, and stopping the rumors certainly has value, but if we are going to err, I think it is best to err on the side of not exacerbating an issue involving an honest, and subsequently corrected, mistake in which no one was hurt.

[Laser Wizardry]

" 15 characters"

[buffo]

Dan;

I don't share the thought that LOBO should be "sanctioned". I accept that the incident happened, the problem(s) were corrected, and everyone felt comfortable with the solution(s). My intent is not to crucify LOBO for an honest mistake.

My intent is to remove the air of secrecy, even if it wasn't intentional. In my opinion, this should have been mentioned in a summary of the conference events that would have been posted to the ILDA-list. Then, when the topic arose here, several ILDA members would have been able to offer ILDA's side of the story immediately. (Note that a post on the ILDA-list which would only been seen by other members is not the same as a public announcement on the website.

Granted, I also agree that I should have contacted Patrick as soon as I first learned of the incident. As I've already stated above, I will endeavor to remember to contact him first in the future.

Adam

[Lasermad]

Dont worry guys , the bigger and higher up you get rules dont apply , its called familiarity.

Rules are for minions

[Simon]

......I'd rather have that LOBO laser gun sweep past me at a full 100 Watts CW than to have somebody audience scan me with a laserscope. Wouldn't you?

Really ? are you serious ?

None of those options is preferred or acceptable by me and everyone else I suspect !

[norty303]

Would you rather be f*cked in the ass by a horse or an elephant?

That horse doesn't sound so bad, does it!

[Laser Wizardry]

" 15 characters"

[TechJunkie]

Dan;

I don't share the thought that LOBO should be "sanctioned". I accept that the incident happened, the problem(s) were corrected, and everyone felt comfortable with the solution(s). My intent is not to crucify LOBO for an honest mistake.

I have to disagree with this. If it was just one mistake, then OK, but it was a chain of mistakes. The pad was poured wrong. They used plywood to correct it. The unit was left unattended, plus all the other mishaps. This is suppose to be a professional company yet everything they did was completely unprofessional. They should be held accountable for this debacle. If it could happen at this conference, it can somewhere else. And the fact that ILDA didnt even report this to its full membership is a coverup, not hindsight. Its was a huge catastrophe, people should know about it.

This whole thing is a huge black eye for the industry. You're suppose to trust the people that work to keep you safe. They are suppose to flag companies that make huge errors like this. Does it take someone getting hurt for them to step up? If it does than thats F'd up. LOBO should have been crucified for the MULTIPLE mistakes it made that resulted in putting people in harms way.

[DanG]

Tech,

Of course there was a series of things that led to the incident. If only one thing had gone wrong it would have been much worse from a safety standpoint... the more things that go wrong mean that more layers of security were put in place to achieve a good result. The idea of course is that one of those layers SHOULD catch the incident but sometimes things go wrong no matter what you do. The fact that Lobo did as much as they did shows their professionalism (not many people would hire a guard to make sure that no one messes with their laser, we don't...) and then they did step up and take responsibility.

Due respect but I think you are blowing this way out of proportion. If a bunch of people got blinded - that would be a huge catastrophe. But that's not the case.

There was an incident that occurred when several sets of things did not go as planned at the same time, no one was hurt, the company took responsibility, there was a formal inquiry on-site and changes have been made. That is precisely what a responsible company is supposed to do.

If you don't believe that a chain of things can go wrong with talented, professional and well meaning people at the helm, watch Apollo 13 as one of MANY examples.

I think you would feel very differently if you were in Lobo's place with the same set of facts.

[TechJunkie]

Sorry, dont mean to blow it out of proportion.

I was in the construction business for a long time. The fact they didnt check the pad to start with is ludicrous. You pay for construction, but dont check the completion? Then you find its wrong and substitute concrete for plywood? This is the base for a high dollar, dangerous new technology thats being unveiled at an IDLA conference thats full of people. Can you be anymore irresponsible? Yes you can!!! You can leave it unattended, and not stop it after it scanned the crowed. And hiring a $6 an hour security guard to keep an eye on their baby is not really commendable. Its not like the place was full of kids, its was a conference of laser professionals.

I agree they handled the aftermath professionally, but it was still after the fact it could have blinded people. The only reason why it didnt was because the people knew better to duck, block their eyes, ect. Safety levels obviously had nothing to do with it, because it seems no one followed them.

I think comparing this indecent to Apollo 13 is blowing out of proportion. The set up of this laser was not that technical. Their only thought was to keep the show going.

If I was in LOBOs shoes I'd fire every idiot that contributed to this issue. From the guy who worked with the contractor, to the guy with the plywood, to the guy who walked away from his post. They are obviously incompetents.