FB4

[Datsurb]

Hello Bill.

Thanks for telling us what the FB4 is NOT.

From that explanation, my PERSONAL point of view, would be. Go carefull ahead.
Pangolin has a great name in the laser business, and are now playing a dangerous game with both the FBx name, but also the Pangolin brand itself.

Launcing laser-products handled by "soccermom", does make me more than a little sceptic, to say the least. Lasersafety first, second and so on...

I understand the will and eager to launch into the mass market, and earn a lot of money, but it is also a risky game. I guess this is an attempt to win some of the IShow market. My guess is that it is still enthusiast, DJ and geek market bying cheap lasergadets.

Second is using the FBx name for a product that is not an FB as we know it today. I guess Pangolin would do better if they use a differendt name for a product that is not. The FB3 is a killerproduct, and using the same name for a LOW LOW end product, sounds really strange to me.

Pangolin and FB are well renomated, and i find it to be a gamble launching "something completly different" under the same brands.

I guess:
Bill likes to gamble
or
have 100% faith in the "FB4 that is not an FB"

[Humphry]

Bill,

I feel like most of your post would be suitably accompanied by an epic orchestral soundtrack. Hans Zimmer comes to mind.

FB3 network functionality is going to be the biggest selling point for myself (and most others, I suspect) - everything else is a welcomed bonus.

I am really glad that this isn't a replacement to the FB3, and rather a modular addition. My faith in Pangolin products as investments has just received a +5. Quite relieved that it's not just an FB3 with ethernet port.

So FB4 is not a replacement for any of our other hardware products. Rather, it's something new. Something completely different. Someting designed to address problems people don't even *consciously* know they have.

[VibrationsOfDoom]

>>Pangolin hardware was designed to be on the market, and serve clients for a very long time -- far longer than typical computer products. I can say this about many of the >>products that Pangolin makes. This is so, because we take longevity into account when we are designing products, and because our products are built with a vision of the >>future in mind. This is one of the reasons why our products hold their resale value for such a long time.

You know, NOW I start to understand why the software seems pricey in comparison to what I'm used to paying for software. Even thinking the 200 or 300 for Windows XP, 7, 8, whatever is pricey, especially since Windows likes to cut off support for said operating systems every 5 years or so. When I get ready to buy a computer (which, incidentally, is every 10 years or so), I always look ahead. For instance, they're still selling dual-core and I3 computers, but I wanted a quad-core... I also looked for an inexpensive system (IE: NOT cheap), that I could upgrade later on as my needs grew. I'm a hard core gamer, so obviously memory and graphics card support are key for me. And so far, I haven't seen a ton of games, or programs for that matter, that can push the limits of quad core processing beyond the system I have capable of running them. So the fact that this Pangolin software is over 15 years old and still being run by people TODAY (In addition to the tons of support I hear about from people, like the hundreds of shows, graphics available, etc.), it kinda makes sense....

That being said, there's only so many people in today's market and economy that can afford to plunk down $1500 for software/hardware combos, and that's just for the most basic, barebones version of the software. Someone like me would probably benefit more from the midlevel version, which comes at around $2500 a pop. Something for the "soccer moms" is probably a necessity as the technology gets more affordable and a decent unit can be had for under $500 and that includes shipping. Trust me, I WISH I had the $1500 to grab a copy of this thing; that's still far off in the future... Right now I'm still looking to upgrade my 20k scanners, something that will obviously come before the Pangolin software... But getting more users into this hobby is tantamount to ANY company's success, and I think Pangolin sees that. I mean after someone spend a lot of money for a top of the line laser system, how much will they have left to buy the said software?

[White-Light]

That's where QS comes in.

QS is designed to fill the void below Beyond. Yep it isn't anywhere as capable, but it isn't also anywhere near the price, and having put down it's capabilities when compared to Beyond, it has to be said that it's good enough to be in use by many small clubs and DJ's as it's simple interface belies the underlying power in many areas.

I guess if you want pro, you need pro money which is never nice, but a necessary evil.

Bill is obviously keeping the FB4 close to his chest, but if it's anything like the 3rd party enclosure recently made for the FB3, then it could be exciting times ahead, at least at the professional end of the market. I just hope that maybe in line with the building block philosophy, there's something at the low end for hobbyist users.

Personally, I'd still like to see the holy grail of networking, the reliable, fast wireless network solution. Surely with modern modems, (the latest Asus DSL-AC86U eg offers 1900 mbs wireless and dual core processing: http://www.cnet.com/products/asus-rt...igabit-router/), it must be on the cards.

BTW Bill, any ETA on the Beyond Workspace????????

Suspense is killing me!

[Lasermad]

Bill,
Quite relieved that it's not just an FB3 with ethernet port.

mmm i must be easily pleased i was hoping that it was that , or even a wireless FB3 , now there's something people would be forming an orderly queue to buy

[swamidog]

mmm i must be easily pleased i was hoping that it was that , or even a wireless FB3 , now there's something people would be forming an orderly queue to buy

i would never suggest a wireless connection to the DAC. too many potential issues with latency and safety.

[Lasermad]

i would never suggest a wireless connection to the DAC. too many potential issues with latency and safety.

I guess pangolin would NEVER EVER , EVER release a product with their name on it that would have those issues , but if anyone can solve
though issues for this application its likely to be pango !

[White-Light]

i would never suggest a wireless connection to the DAC. too many potential issues with latency and safety.

The very latest high end wireless routers use 2 frequency bands simultaneously and should have low latency due to both their speed and processing power. One of the problems traditionally with most routers has always been that the CPU in them is marginal so if the router eg is trying to connect to the internet, then everything else such as the control interface is unavailable as the processor is so marginal it effectively freezes until the current process is terminated. Obviously, whereas you wouldn't be connecting to the internet during a show, the ability for the router not to freeze if it becomes busy, is essential. Some of the very latest routers now with fast dual cores, can multi-task without issues, which should take latency out of the equation (excepting of course the signal path time).

That's one of the reasons why, having saved for some time, I've pre-ordered a DSL-AC86U for myself. It was more than I wanted to spend, but I'm simply sick of my cheap ISP supplied Router and I've seen some great speed reports for it.

As for safety, isn't that something that should be integrated into the DAC's receiver side? I don't see why a loss of signal from wireless should be any different to a loss of signal from wired. What matters is how the DAC handles it, ie either pre-loading whole shows in advance of playback and resorting to it's memory, or looping the last segment in it's memory if eg in live play or cutting the output dead by going to blackout mode on loss of signal (less desirable show wise but very safe).

The biggest issue I would have though would be interference but with dual band transmission, the latest modems work on an and / or basis to over come this, picking the frequency to avoid the interfering signal.

I also wonder if in a laser scenario, reliability could be improved by use of a directional aerial to both increase signal strength and reduce the window for interference.

[norty303]

Having read all that, I'm now actually more confused what FB4 'might' be, and whether it will actually lead to a DAC being supplied for sale with an ethernet port...???

Whilst people may not know the solutions they require for problems they didn't know they had, we do have a scenario where people do have a need for a cat5 controlled DAC. The fact that people are building their own solutions, and a partner is building docks is demonstrative of that.

I wonder if the statement that FB3 won't be obsolete/entriely replaced indicates that the Apollo/Gemini product line of thinking is how it might manifest?

[m0f]

I currently own 4 fb3's and could really use a couple more, but have been holding back on purchasing more in anticipation of a native ethernet solution, and if were in the form of an oem product that could be embedded into each projector, even better.

I must say despite the reassurances that it's not a replacement for the fb3, I'm not quite convinced it'd be in my best interests to purchase more of them until more is known. It was also stated that originally it was designed to be the highest end networking controller, but the question is what is it going be at the point of release. If just an addon to network existing fb3's I must say I'm happy enough with my icron usb-cat5 adapter. But I have a feeling it's more than that, or different.

My guess as far as a consumer product goes is that it's not going to be laser related at all. An analog output, controllable over ethernet or wifi to me sounds like it could have some uses in home automation products, and probably a huge amount of other consumer products as well.