FB4

[johnmcc]

Hi guys, talking about wireless control I saw this video a while back and it has a few close up shows of the swisslas lasers they seem to have a reciver on top of the projector?? Is this being done wireless??

http://youtu.be/fdusg00-EQM

[White-Light]

I think my real point was , its ok for us hobbyist to play but when it comes to commercial products , dealing in hope and possibles wont work , im surprised you suggested it .. only defined and definates are available to commercial products

What I was trying to suggest was possibilities. How its implemented, if it's implemented, is down to those professional companies who have the knowledge and means to do it.

I know Pangolin experimented with Wifi a while ago, I'm guessing it probably went no-where, but technologies have moved on since then.

In the 2012 catalogue, Kvant were even selling a FB3 with Wifi, although I'm guessing this might have been a home grown product:

[m0f]

I think the wifi fb3 that was available is just making use of wireless dmx, controlling an fb3 se w/ memory card via dmx. Which is a lot different from say trying to send a continuous stream as is done over the usb interface.

I'm still not sure how you think this would happen. The clients couldn't log onto your network if you were using a wifi network based solution with a secured network. So that rules out uploading selfies on your network.

Around here the telecoms / isp's are laying out wider area wifi networks, providing wifi to their subscribers in common large venues and public gathering areas. So around here at least, It'd be safe to assume the common wifi frequency range would be quite busy during a show.

The Qm2000.net however I know of people having used them over wifi for hobbyist purposes and perhaps small shows as it has it's own frame buffer and is capable of running without the continuous stream from the pc, however is still not something that should ever be used for larger shows where it's critical that things work. I know with any large shows I've worked, wireless just isn't considered an option, whether for video, dmx or anything else, even if it works 99% of the time.

[Pockels]

Ok, so you can run Gig Ethernet over a dedicated licensed link, but that would be a) massive overkill for the given scenario, b) prohibitively expensive (60/80 Ghz kit runs in the 10's of thousands for the transmitter alone, c) a right royal pain in the ass to set up/take down.

My choice would still be PTP over 2.4GHz, even in an extremely busy environment.

[Guido]

Hi,

even if this is a FB4 Thread : Beside Moncha.net there are also other Cards.
The Netlase and the Netlase LC (both ILDA Awarded ) are also not so bad :-)
I was involved in the Development of both and i also have an LD2000.net to compare. The nearly 1200 Users are happy with them.
The first Netlase was running at Prolight in Frankfurt in times when other Companys need to reconnect Power or Ethernet many Times a Day...

To every Laserfreak - Meeting ( also Dutch LEM this and next Year :-) ) i bring my Box with 10 Netlase LC and Switch included to "feed" the Stage.
In the Laptop - Area there is another Switch where users with Dynamics, HE-Laserscan oder Mamba can connect. The first on who pressed "Play"
got the Cards. After "Stop" they are free for the next User. Still waiting for Dimitris Feedback of our Meeting im Mainz last Week :-)
Think after the 500g Schnitzel he is still Ill :-)

[JohnYayas]

Wireless control can be handled quite easily as long as it doesn't have to be live. If there can be some latency then buffering will handle that. Estop could be reliably handled easily by use of a dedicated channel. Think about how home wireless phones work and what happens when you are listening to it and someone unplugs the base. Latency and reliability is a big problem when needing minimal latency however. At a place I worked we created wireless controlled high speed CAN bus adapters that hook into big trucks to read diagnostic data. Communication worked well with no latency of concern in ideal situations. But, we had all kinds of connection issues. I left before the product matured so I am sure it got better - it was aimed at going into military vehicles.

I'd be willing to bet that someone has already solved this problem in some other domain space. Realtime wireless control of small devices isn't something that only laserists could use. So, I bet there is no need to invent the wheel here.

[Stuka]

It would be interesting to see a laser-control solution that works similarly to modern radio-control model aircraft equipment.
2.4ghz spread-spectrum technology, digital lock between transmitter and receiver, VERY resistant to interference (even with other 2.4ghz equipment in close proximity), bi-directional real-time control & telemetry data, frame-rate monitoring, fail-safe programmability, etc., etc.

I would think something based on the that technology would have plenty of bandwidth to support laser-control applications - maybe?

[White-Light]

I nearly said radio control frequencies earlier when thinking of alternatives as its unlikey laser would get its own band so in lookiing for alternatives if wifi frequencies aren't available, RC frequencies seem the next best bet, espeically as thier use at night is very unlikely, which reduces intereference risks. I didn't know anything about digital locks though. It all sounds very interesting Stuka.

[swamidog]

Are you sure about that, because from memory I'm pretty sure the Qm2000 card pre-loads shows and keeps running from it's memory if the connection to the host PC is lost. I'm sure that was always one of the boasts of the system, that it keeps going even if the PC crashes.

that does not always work. i have seen computer crashes cause the qm2k to freeze with a static frame or beam. also, if your show contains lots of ilda frames, load times across a network to a qm2k.net box is very very slow.

[tribble]

I think the 2.4GHz DSM RC modules (e.g., Spektrum or FrSKY) are a great bet for hobbyist experimentation. The only question is whether you are going to get both the data rate you want and the reliability you want at the same time. The last time I checked, these modules had a 22ms or an 11ms frame timing, and sent 14 bytes per frame. 14 bytes in 11 ms is a little over 10Kbps. If you want 3x 8bit color, plus 12-bit X and Y, you're at 48 bits (6 bytes) per point. If you want 30,000 of those per second, you're going to need in excess of 1.44Mbps data throughput after frame headers and other control overhead. Maybe by now they have expanded to additional modulation options and higher data rates. You definitely want the paired, deterministic characteristics of that kind of link, though, not anything complex like 802.11. But, as data rate goes up, bandwidth goes up, power requirements go up, and range or reliability goes down. Probably there is an OEM modem chip out there that would make a good basis for experimentation, but... there you are at the beginning of the design phase.

Maybe we should design it on hobby hours and then sell it to someone.