Pangolin Show Space

[norty303]

As a recent Laserwave distributor I also found an unhealthy relationship between at least this manufacturer and Winni. I was told what the pricing of the product was to their distributors and then after investing, learned that this was untrue. Their pricing was so unfavorable and uneven that I was unable to continue to distribute the product without taking a loss. I do not know why any manufacturer would provide their product to a network of distributors at variable wholesale prices. This will undermine the network and eliminate the benefit of having local distributors.

Is Pangolin providing Quickshow to Winni for less than they do to other distributors? That is disturbing.

This is a fairly common theme from what I gather. When i was looking at some CNI modules Winni could supply them cheaper to me than Dave could obtain them for (admittedly they may have different 'grades' of module depending on which market it is going to)

I suspect a good chunk of any difference is acceptable margin and taxes.

[planters]

I suspect a good chunk of any difference is acceptable margin and taxes.

No, Dave was correct. The difference is greater than the shipping differential and it is my understanding that the CN government provides a disincentive for the manufacturer to ship directly to an end user. I believe this feeds the business to in-country distributors. OK, unfair trade practices. What else is new. But Pangolin is not in-country and Bill has just said they like working with Winni. I got a problem with this if they are allowing a particular distributor to disadvantage other distributors. On the other hand if Pangolin is selling directly to the end user then the existence of a distributor network is a bit of a fallacy. Winni is then an end user and simply taking advantage of a lower cost for quantity purchasing and passing this on to the next user.

[teknical]

Thanks Bill been playing with it all night in the club I love it

[teknical]

But Pangolin is not in-country and Bill has just said they like working with Winni.

May not be based in-country but my fb3 had a 'MADE IN CHINA' sticker stuck over the serial number

[buffo]

I got a problem with this if they are allowing a particular distributor to disadvantage other distributors.

What leads you to this conclusion, Eric? I'm sorry, but I'm trying to follow your thought train here, and I'm just not getting it.

Winni buys a bunch of FB3's (several hundred) and gets a reduction in the dealer cost. I don't see that as a disadvantage to other distributors. She did this at significant risk to her business. After the purchase she had a large chunk of money tied up in inventory. Perhaps other dealers don't want to take that risk? (I know I would be very worried about buying that many at one time.)

So now Goldenstar decides to sell those units at a discount. So long as they don't advertise a price below the MAP (which they haven't - you'll notice there is no price listing on the Goldenstar website for the FB3, you have to e-mail them for that), they haven't violated any dealership agreement. You are free to sell your product at any price you want (including at a loss, if you want to be stupid), so long as you don't ADVERTISE that price. (That's what a minimum-advertised-price, or MAP, agreement is for.)

Likewise, if other US dealers want to roll the dice and purchase several hundred FB3's, I'm sure they could get the same deal Goldenstar did. But how many companies are willing to have 200 - 300 FB3's sitting on a shelf just waiting for orders? Most of them probably purchase in lots of 50 or less, and understandably they don't get them quite as cheap when they do that.

I know for a fact that the order Goldenstar placed back in the fall was for at LEAST 200 FB3's, if not more. I was in contact with Mimi when the order was placed, and later I confirmed it with Justin (with Mimi's blessing).

I just don't see how one company taking a risk by purchasing in bulk can be conflated with "Goldenstar is disenfranchising other dealers". If anything, it's capitalism, which is a game that the Chinese seem to have learned rather quickly.

Adam

[planters]

Buffo,

You need to read my post more carefully. I did not come to this conclusion. I posed this as an alternative to the exact same point that you restate. I did not conclude which alternative I believed to be the case. I did not say they violated any dealership agreement. How in the world could I know if they even had a dealership agreement?

I just don't see how one company taking a risk by purchasing in bulk can be conflated with "Goldenstar is disenfranchising other dealers".

I do not either and I never said this.

Regarding MAP. What is the MAP for Quickshow? Goldenstar may have a website and that's fine. I have never had to visit it because they spontaneously send me price lists for their products and the pricing is right there. I am certain these emails are not created and sent to me alone. That is advertising and there is no disputing that.

http://web.mail.comcast.net/service/...=316940&part=2

[buffo]

I did not come to this conclusion.

If you say so Eric. Maybe you need to re-read your own post. You offered two, and only two, possible scenarios, both of which implied that something untoward was going on. You did not even mention any other possible arrangements that might have been above board. So you'll forgive me if I interpreted that to mean that you had come to the conclusion that one of your two scenarios was the truth and that something shady was going on.

How in the world could I know if they even had a dealership agreement?

Did you read Bill's post above where he stated that they had been doing business with Goldenstar for some time now and that they were quite pleased with them? Given that fact, plus the fact that Goldenstar sells Pangolin products (and not just the FB3, but all controllers including the LD2000 and Phoenix), how would you not think that they were a dealer?

Regarding MAP. What is the MAP for Quickshow?

$595

Goldenstar may have a website and that's fine. I have never had to visit it because they spontaneously send me price lists for their products and the pricing is right there. I am certain these emails are not created and sent to me alone. That is advertising and there is no disputing that.

For someone who was an authorized dealer for Laserwave, I'm surprised that you would make such a statement. Minimum Advertised Price covers PUBLIC ADVERTISEMENTS. It does not include direct mail to existing clients, of which e-mail is a sub-set. This is basic business 101.

If Goldenstar was blind-spamming people (either via e-mail or on the forum) with price lists below the MAP, then they'd be in violation. But sending targeted mailings (or e-mail messages, or PM's here on the forum) to people they already have a relationship with is completely within their right.

Surely Bridge went over this with you when you signed up with him to sell Laserwave products?

Finally, posting that price list here in the forum would normally be considered very bad form (even though you're not a dealer, you're compromising Wini's position), but it doesn't matter because you accidentally linked to your own e-mail account, so it won't show up for anyone else. (derp!)

Adam

[planters]

Buffo,
I do say so.
I did read Bills post.
I am not an existing client. I am a previous customer. I have never bought anything from Winni beside lasers and I have never inquired about anything else. I have no financial relationship with Pangolin or with Winni. The price list they sent me was not requested and was not listed as privileged or confidential. And what the hell are you talking about regarding "bad form". If Winni is actively emailing to every individual that has ever done business with them, price lists and updated price lists for every product they sell (even if the customer has never inquired about the product) then this to my mind is advertising. I think you are trying to draw a distinction with out a meaningful difference. Just about everyone who has been in this area (hobby or pro) for some time will be likely to be aware of the pricing that Winni is charging. I am not obsessing on the loop hole of exactly how the multicolored, multipage document gets to the potential customer. It's my understanding that these prices are charged to all the people who respond to purchase the products advertized (listed) whatever.

You are very quick to jump to Winni's defense, but consider the point that I was trying to make in my post; grant for a second (all the sparing with words aside) that I am not criticizing Winni, I am questioning the set up that seems be working to undermine a worldwide distribution network. If it is simply quantity purchasing (as I have said already) then passing this savings on to the next purchaser is fine. If other distributors are working under some other restriction(s) and I do not know that they are then that could be a problem. If they are not then...no problem.

Surely Bridge went over this with you when you signed up with him to sell Laserwave products?

Went over what?

[teknical]

How did my question turn into a arguement lol

[norty303]

It is the way of the interweb