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Thread: New scanner EMS-5100. Find the difference and win a set !

  1. #31
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    I would offer help putting some 506 together really cheap if that helps with the workflow. Shouldn't be too hard.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by edison View Post
    A comparison is good but only when its done by an independed party instead of the manufacturer himself.
    lol

    because you have a great rep around here as a manufacturer right?

    anywho, nice EyeMagic's... I enjoy my EMS4k's, they can't do the ILDA test pattern worth a crap for some reason but they project all my shows just fine so that's all that matters to me...

    I am just glad to see some innovation, really not much has happened in what, like a decade? now all of a sudden there are all sorts of rapid innovations in lasers and scanning... fun times to be a photon nerd

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by magus View Post
    I agree. Even if it's true, it's not professional and respectful.
    There's one big problem in the scanner marketplace. In fact, it's very similar to a problem in the laser marketplace. All of us here have seen lasers advertised as 5 watts (or whatever), but then when you measure the output, you find it's only 3 watts, and so you then look into the fine print and discover that the particular manufacturer decided to rate "maximum laser output" instead of typical laser output or even minimum output as the best manufacturers do...

    In this case, you have manufacturers *claiming* to be able to go 60K, and claiming to be able to handle 5mm beams, but the reality is that the products fall far short of what they are advertising. For reference, I will call your attention to this brochure, which has been on Eye Magic web site literally for years: http://www.eyemagic.gr/downloads/ems-7000.pdf

    If you take a close look, you'll see "6.8 by 12mm (5mm beam diam.)" -- plus the whole advertisement makes it seem like you can go 60K with 5mm beams. The problem is YOU CAN'T EVEN FIT A 5MM BEAM ON A MIRROR THAT IS ONLY 6.8mm WIDE!!!

    Check it out. Even at a nominal 45 degree angle of incidence, the mirror width would have to be AT LEAST (Secant of 45 degrees = 1.414 * 5mm =) 7.07mm wide, and this is the absolute minimum to reflect a non-scanning beam! Surely Eye Magic knows that the advertisement exaggerates on this point which is clear, and other areas too, and yet he has not bothered to take this advertisement down, or change it!

    Above I said the problem is similar to laser power, but in fact it is worst... At least in the case of laser power falling short of that advertised, you can find in the fine print that lets you know that you've been fooled after the fact. At least the laser manufacturers are giving you hints of what to expect, if you dig far enough. And heck, even in the case of DT-40, their web site mentions that their deliverables could actually be as little as 30K, and conditions under which you might get higher performance. But in the case of some scanner manufacturers, this is not the case.

    Even with the latest EMS 8000, which claim to deliver 60K performance at even greater than 8 degrees won't do that (and we've tested two pairs so far just to make sure it wasn't a fluke). Moreover, sure, on these they will handle a 5mm beam -- before you actually start to scan.... But if you can more than +10 degrees upward, or more than 17 degrees leftward or righward you will overfill the mirrors. So is this really what people are willing to live with as "5mm"?

    So I do what I can to point these facts out to people. Is this "not professional and disrespectful"? Well my point is that Eye Magic themselves is "not professional and disrespectful" of the entire laser community by advertising one thing but delivering another!

    Sorry folks but this stuff gets my goat because the playing field is not level. At Pangolin we do real engineering. When we say our scanners do something, they can be proven to do that thing with engineering data and physics. It's not just marketing hyperbole, and people who aren't going to be so happy when they wind up receiving the product and testing it to its supposed limits.

    Bill

  4. #34
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    Dear Mr. Benner :

    Your reaction was more than expected. After so many years, so many promises for ''unbelievable preformance'' for those ''ultimately dissatisfied with the current technology'', the saturn scanners are finally here and are behind our EMS-8000 in speed. And they will stay there, because we know a bit about slotted stators. Our EMS-4000 are like this (so much for the re-invention of the motor..!) and they are more than 10 years old. Refining the shape of the slots will not go much further. As speed goes up, the performance of the slots drops where in the coreless stator it stays linear. If you recall, you have seen with your own eyes our EMS-4000 go 60K@5deg, in HB_laser premises, around a decade ago...If you cannot remember it, ask Lutz and Harald. They are in a booth near you in Prolight.

    Directly accusing us as ''not professional and disrespectfull in the entire (!) laser community'' shows a certain quality. And you do this in OUR thread which is about OUR new scanners, using a post from someone else (not us) as an excuse. You do not even have that courtesy...Maybe you own Photonlexicon ?
    If yes, let us know please.

    I cannot even think what will be your reaction when we release the EMS-1, later this year....

    All the best to all,

    Tom Kamaras
    EyeMagic

  5. #35
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    Well...

    As crappy as this looks.

    This "competition" or "disagreement" can actually be a good thing.

    Apple vs Microsoft is a good example that comes to mind.

    Healthy, or unhealthy, competition drives creativity.

    Ill stay neutral though. I love both you guys <3
    "This is not "work". It's a disease, addiction and passion. Only slightly cheaper than cocaine, but similar effects."
    -dnar

  6. #36
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    I agree competion is good as long as Mr brenner acts as a gentleman and not Promoting his product. When an average member does the same thing he gets a slap on his wrist but because its the Big boss himself almost everyone seems to accept it.

    There's one big problem in the scanner marketplace. In fact, it's very similar to a problem in the laser marketplace. All of us here have seen lasers advertised as 5 watts (or whatever), but then when you measure the output, you find it's only 3 watts, and so you then look into the fine print and discover that the particular manufacturer decided to rate "maximum laser output" instead of typical laser output or even minimum output as the best manufacturers do...
    If your so concerned with "the problem" and what others in the market claims then stop selling scanners to laserworld to distribute your scanners. They are doing exactly what you are so against, selling laserprojectors that are way below power then advertised. You don,t have to be a wizzkid to know that laserworld will be one of your bigger customers in the laserentertainment industry.

    your own quote from the scannermax506 thread posted on 01-07-2014:

    As for China, the plan to make a low-cost scanner wasn't even on our roadmap until a client came to us and asked us to make a cheap scanner for them, promising to order more than one million of them if we did...
    You claim that you "care" about it but as soon as you can sell over a million of your scanners your happy to help Laserword selling more of those crappy underrated projectors as long as it fills your pocket

    You present yourself again as being the one that cares and helps but in the end your just a bussinessman. A smart one i give you that.
    Last edited by edison; 03-11-2014 at 21:45. Reason: brad gave me some insight info :-)


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  7. #37
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    I believe the term for what was previously posted below is REDACTED...

    Thanks Edison!
    Last edited by Bradfo69; 03-12-2014 at 03:55.

  8. #38
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    Bill,
    With all due respect, I think you might leave Tom alone on this one primarily because he started the thread. The 506 and Saturn scanners are much better than just an alternative to CT, EMS, DT ect. The neat feature of a reduced footprint as compared to their EXISTING 4000 series scanners might be useful for some niche applications.

    However, I fully understand the problem you face when your goat gets got. I've been involved with a few recent threads that I couldn't ignore for the same reason.

    Tom,
    If I missed it I apologize, but if not can you list the performance specs for the standard EMS 4000 and compare them to the integrated 4000 so we can see a side by side comparison for a given mirror size?

  9. #39
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    I fully understand the point you were trying to make though. But I wanted to take the liberty of coming to Bill's defense on this one.
    Thanks brad for correcting me, text refraised.


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  10. #40
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    Default Some more info

    Hello Everyone,

    Please find attached the dimensions and a couple of views of the new EMS-5100 scanners.

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    We decided to offer the EMS-5100 set INCLUDING the power supplies, as we found a nice small PS that does the job. We are laser cutting an L-bracket to hold the 2 PS in vertical position.
    The list price will be 350 Euro per set (including 2xPS and L-bracket). At 30K@7deg, they are not designed to be your main graphics scanners, but to exist in miniature ‘’all purpose’’ projectors.
    They produce very low heat, you can literally make a projector without fans. For the moment, we offer them with 3.8mm aperture only, as the bigger mirror would load the internal servo more. We will try it though, and if it turns to be useful, we will offer it as an option.

    A good ‘’side-effect’’ of the production of the 5100 is that the price of the 4000 will drop. As they both share the same motor, we decided to charge only a little more for the cost of the external servo cards.
    Although not fixed yet, the reduction is in the range of 40%.

    As we have many years of excellent track record on the 4000 motors, we decided to offer a 5 year warranty for the 4000 and 5100 scanners (standard 2 years for the 8000 as they are younger).

    Please note that we have a nice discount/quantity policy, with price breaks at 3 sets (-15%), 7 sets (-22%), 11 sets (-27%) and 16 sets (-30%). This applies to all our products, not only the 5100.

    All the best to all,

    Tom Kamaras
    EyeMagic

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