Pangolin demonstrates 90K ILDA at Prolight & runs 3 shows simoultaneously

[Bradfo69]

Here is an example of where the benefit of another scanner manufacture can manifest itself. You offered to explain this and I'm one of those that's not as bright as some people here and "didn't" understand what you meant:

Do not be fooled by the ''trick'' of playing many shows, one next to the other, at high speed. The widths of the shows DO NOT ADD UP. If each show is played at (for example) 10 degrees, then the whole projection is still in 10 degrees, even if the shows are ''spread'' around the projection area. We are happy to explain this if you do not understand it.

[colouredmirrorball]

At the end of the day, I see nothing wrong with Pangolin limiting scanner speed at their discretion. The fact that they are willing to lift this limitation on their entry level product should be hailed as a victory, not condemned as "unfair". Frankly, I think faster scan speeds should be limited to their more professional products, but that's just me.

The trouble is that Pangolin thinks that only their scanners are capable of going beyond 30k. Even if somebody else manages to produce a 90k scanner, it wouldn't work at its full potential in QS, while the Pangolin scanners would. They'd need to know about the hack and perform a few nontrivial and possibly illegal steps (or buy additional software that costs more than the scanners themselves). This doesn't fit with the QS imago of user friendliness.

Of course, it's not my job to think for Pangolin. If they believe this is the best way to handle things, then this will be the way.

[Stiffler]

The trouble is that Pangolin thinks that only their scanners are capable of going beyond 30k. Even if somebody else manages to produce a 90k scanner, it wouldn't work at its full potential in QS, while the Pangolin scanners would. They'd need to know about the hack and perform a few nontrivial and possibly illegal steps (or buy additional software that costs more than the scanners themselves). This doesn't fit with the QS imago of user friendliness.

Of course, it's not my job to think for Pangolin. If they believe this is the best way to handle things, then this will be the way.

With all due respect, anyone purchasing top-of-the-line professional grade scanners should also be upgrading from Quickshow to Beyond, as Quickshow is an entry level product.

[White-Light]

Dear White-light,

It seems that you have confused a few numbers.

In the video released from the recent LEM, Pangolin demonstrated the Saturn 1 system, with 3mm ap. mirrors, displaying correctly the ILDA test (12/30K) at 60K@8deg or at 90K@ around 3 deg.

Where did you find the 90K @ 8 degrees ?

Tom, in their Prolight video, Pangolin mention True 90K speeds. That means the ILDA Test pattern at 90K and 8 degrees to me. Also in their Prolight video, they mention 30 degrees followed by mentioning 90K scanners when displaying the 3 shows. We know they were making improvements to their amps between the LEM and Prolight so I have no reason to doubt changes have been made. Now if they didn't mean that, and I've read the text together when it shouldn't have been read that way, then I'm sure they'll chip in with the correct figures should they feel the need to do so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xATKWJkxL0

As for the 506's, I believe that was in a previous video. I'm sure 30K @ 32 degrees was the ILDA 30K test pattern (although that is from memory and I'm quite open to correction), and in the same video, BB showed that they could go to 30K @ over 50 degrees with only the very slightest distortion in the other test patterns.

So far as you leaving goes, like I said Tom, my comments were nothing personal. I like to see even handiness in comparisons, as that's the only way consumers can choose products, and it appeared that possibly wasn't happening here if everyone was quoting speeds at possibly differing angles with possibly different display media scenarios. Of course if I'm wrong, then you have my apologies for bringing this to your attention in error.

I am a fan of Pangolin's products, but I would have brought to their attention a possible mistake in what had been said, had the shoe been on the other foot. I try my best to be even handed with comments.

I agree with the others that it's good to have a range of manufacturers around presenting options.

[colouredmirrorball]

With all due respect, anyone purchasing top-of-the-line professional grade scanners should also be upgrading from Quickshow to Beyond, as Quickshow is an entry level product.

please show me the stone this rule is carved into. Why rob people of the choice?

[dsli_jon]

Alan (is it?..)

Sorry ... this is nothing personal, and I rarely get involved in these claim / counter claim arguments, but I can't stand unfairness....

Could you kindly let us all know how many sets of: EMS 4000s, EMS 7(or 8000)s, Cambridge CT-anything, Pangolin 506 or Saturn I or V Scanning Galvanometers.. you personally own / test / put thru the rigors of touring road-shows, time and again.. and then, Test-again? Your answer, please: __________________

Thanks
j

----

Tom @ EMS -

Please don't let 'armchair quarterbacks' and other-such rabblerousers incite you to leave PL.. We need you. You make great products, and we (..all the EMS-owners / lovers of the world / *and* PL..) appreciate that you care for those that *matter* - Your Customers.

..And I'd further like to encourage you with the FACT that - for Professionals - who GIVES A FLYING WHAT SOME CO's SCANNERS DO on some 'test-bench' in some air-conditioned Trade Show?!! WHAT MATTERS, Tom, is *WHAT THEY DO IN THE REAL WORLD*, and, more-importantly - *WHEN IT COUNTS*. That was a Period.

..Tom, as One of Your Customers, we've 'banked' $35,000.00 'nites' - one nite, one shot to get it perfect - on Your EMS 4000s, and they came thru like Olympic Gold Medalists. I would not hesitate, again and again, to 'bank' our Shows on your Products. I am eagerly looking forward to giving the 8000s a good 'thrashing', and - like we've done with all the other Galvos we've owned / used (CT's / GS / EMS, even ol' Laserworks..) we will put them thru a set of 'proper paces' - REAL WORLD CONTENT, under REAL WORLD conditions.. Hot / Muggy / Dry / Sandy / Salty / Freezing / Rainy, we will kick their proverbial scanner-asses.. Can 'EMS improve' some things? Of course! Who doesn't need to?? But, I am confident we will continue to see - 'bankable'-results with EMS-Products.

..Now - this is NOT TO IMPLY ANYTHING NEGATIVE about 'Competitors' scanners.. Personally, I am *thrilled* to have new, and - clearly - very-high quality OPTIONS, for both high-speed / high point-count content, and at large angles, and, also, for large-mirror applications.. But I can promise one thing: To quote / parody-off a famous movie-line:
'..."Immortal-coils" ..we'll put their name to the test.'

*Regardless* of 'Planters' pretty-much 'UL-Labs equivalent (independent / hi-fidelity / zero-bias..) testing' I'm sure each Product will have it's strengths, for various types of jobs.. OPTIONS are GOOD, and GOOD OPTIONS are BETTER... imo.. Thanks, Tom, for the Good Options EMS delivers to the World.

Ok, I'm shutting up, now..
j

[JD3]

please show me the stone this rule is carved into. Why rob people of the choice?

because business. thats why haha..

how would expect someone to upgrade to your more expensive product, if you start adding all the features of that product in a cheaper one.

From a business standpoint, it would make no sense to offer features, that are only in beyond, in quickshow.

just my .02 cents.


If Quickshow had all the midi mapping capabilities beyond had, then I would have never bought beyond.
Maybe another factor will persuade someone else to buy the product?
IE. they have scanners capable of going faster than 30k.

The APC40 was the sole factor in my purchase of beyond.
I am glad i dropped the money because it goes BEYOND the APC40 (HAHA).

I don't call Ford and bitch at them because i didn't have a Lincoln engine or interior my car. Thats their Luxry line (Beyond) and you pay extra, for extra.

[depo]

please show me the stone this rule is carved into. Why rob people of the choice?

I didnt agree with the limiting to 30k in Quickshow before stiffler posted. And now i have changed my mind. He is right, if you need more from the software then upgrade. Its no different from them limiting the drawing colours in each LD2000 package. There needs to be a difference in what software versions can or cant do.

[Stiffler]

Why rob people of the choice?

No one is robbing you of choice, as you are free to upgrade to Beyond at your leisure.

[planters]

I'm going to show some ignorance here. If I download a given Pangolin Showspace show and play it through Beyond, as I increase the Kpps speed I notice a progressive decrease in flicker, but depending on the angle and the particular scanner there comes a point where defects in the graphics such as open circles, wavy lines and tails become significant enough that I cannot increase the speed further. This seems simple enough, however as long as the program (Beyond) supports higher rates are there problems that arise because the content was not "written" @ a significantly higher Kpps speed or optimized for such a speed? Bill suggested something like this in the video from the LEM in Florida and PJ suggested this as well in another post. Can someone explain this and give an opinion as to the significance?

Also, beam diameter is going to be an issue for me as the Saturn 1 is preforming remarkably well with 3mm aperture mirrors, but most modern projectors are going to include some and maybe soon all diode laser sources and to get excellent divergence and multi-watt power 5mm apertures will be more practical. That is probably why I will be comparing a Saturn 3 to other available scanners.