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Thread: Newbie ~1W Laser Recommendation Request

  1. #1
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    Default Newbie ~1000mW Laser Recommendation Request & Questions

    Howdy, all. I've been a fan of lasers forever, but never had the opportunity to play with them. However, I'm currently working on a project that calls for laser animation. So, soon I will be taking the plunge.

    I am pricing animation lasers for a project as well as making recommendations to the digital arts program at a university. I am currently considering a laser with the following specs:

    Color: RGB with a balanced white and adjustable power on each color for full range of color (as well as ease in color balancing)
    Total power at least 1000mW
    ILSA and DMX interface
    High quality servos/galvos; high quality laser heads; decent scan speed
    Safety systems such as a scanfail circuit are preferable
    Price under $2500

    Here are more details about the use I am planning:

    Use: white animation from ceiling onto floor
    Room dimensions: up to 40 foot in size, 20 foot ceiling
    Ambient light: dim, but not dark room
    I will likely be using the Ether Dream Laser DAC
    I will be writing the software that controls the laser or adapting existing low-level software
    Since I will be pointing the laser from the ceiling onto the floor, I'd like to follow safety recommendations and not blind anyone

    Which lasers would you suggest I consider? AND what questions should I be asking as I research?

    I know there is probably a temptation to tell me that I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground (true), that my specs are impossible (maybe, but I hope not), and that I am hopeless (not true, I learn fast), but I ask you to please be gentle with my ignorance. I'm willing to learn if you point me in the right directions.

    Thanks in advance for your help.

    Wes

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    Last edited by wmodes; 01-20-2014 at 22:11. Reason: edited title

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    hi wes,

    finding a laser system with those specs should be pretty doable. there are a few chinese vendors that produce reasonably high quality systems in that price range.

    you might start here:

    http://www.goldenstarlaser.com/
    http://www.eightonlight.cn/

    the Ether Dream DAC is excellent and was developed by a member of this forum (j4cbo). i use one for my projectors. for galvos, i recommend the Dragon Tiger (DT) series, either the DT40, DT40pro, the DT40W (wide scan). The PT40's from eightonlight also have good reviews. buy something that will do 30kpps (and beware cheap and sketchy specs on ebay).

    a watt of white would certainly be sufficient in a dim room. or even less. there are a number of us who have been building low power (~300mW) micro projectors using single mode laser diodes. while the power is low, the beam specs and color modulation are awesome and they are relatively bright due to the very tight beams.

    if you're interested in doing show programming, or not having to reinvent the software wheel, there's quite powerful and relatively inexpensive software package called LSX that is available here: https://innolasers.com/shop/index.ph...roller=product

    i use it for my laser work: https://www.youtube.com/swamidog

    oh, i'm not sure if you've made a typo, but the interface you're looking for is ILDA, not ILSA.

    cheers!

    c.


    Quote Originally Posted by wmodes View Post
    Howdy, all. I've been a fan of lasers forever, but never had the opportunity to play with them. However, I'm currently working on a project that calls for laser animation. So, soon I will be taking the plunge.

    I am pricing animation lasers for a project as well as making recommendations to the digital arts program at a university. I am currently considering a laser with the following specs:

    Color: RGB with a balanced white and adjustable power on each color for full range of color (as well as ease in color balancing)
    Total power at least 1000mW
    ILSA and DMX interface
    High quality servos/galvos; high quality laser heads; decent scan speed
    Safety systems such as a scanfail circuit are preferable
    Price under $2500

    Here are more details about the use I am planning:

    Use: white animation from ceiling onto floor
    Room dimensions: up to 40 foot in size, 20 foot ceiling
    Ambient light: dim, but not dark room
    I will likely be using the Ether Dream Laser DAC
    I will be writing the software that controls the laser or adapting existing low-level software
    Since I will be pointing the laser from the ceiling onto the floor, I'd like to follow safety recommendations and not blind anyone

    Which lasers would you suggest I consider? AND what questions should I be asking as I research?

    I know there is probably a temptation to tell me that I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground (true), that my specs are impossible (maybe, but I hope not), and that I am hopeless (not true, I learn fast), but I ask you to please be gentle with my ignorance. I'm willing to learn if you point me in the right directions.

    Thanks in advance for your help.

    Wes

    --
    Wes Modes
    Artist
    modes.io
    suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.

  3. #3
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    I got a powered down pluto 2 from http://www.eightonlight.cn/products/Laser/p110/ a month ago, very good!
    (40k scanner, way within your price range inc. the other stuff you will need)
    Mine is 1,4w and my room I mainly use it in is ~20m long... it's way to bright at full power...
    I have a Ether Dream DAC and are expecting LSX to show up any day now
    A tip, Ether Dream DAC is cheapest from innolasers (from what I found)... and if you want LSX you can get it all from innolasers in one delivery. I bought from two sites and thus paying to 2times for shipping etc.

    Best regards.

    /Bo

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    I'll add a thumbs up for eightonlight. Definately worth a look while doing your search. They're now integrating the 520nm green diodes into projectors as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BazookaBo View Post
    I got a powered down pluto 2 from http://www.eightonlight.cn/products/Laser/p110/ a month ago, very good!
    (40k scanner, way within your price range inc. the other stuff you will need)
    Mine is 1,4w and my room I mainly use it in is ~20m long... it's way to bright at full power...
    I have a Ether Dream DAC and are expecting LSX to show up any day now
    A tip, Ether Dream DAC is cheapest from innolasers (from what I found)... and if you want LSX you can get it all from innolasers in one delivery. I bought from two sites and thus paying to 2times for shipping etc.

    Best regards.

    /Bo
    Other than the DAC, what is the other stuff I should budget for? Cables of course, but what, in my inexperience, am I not thinking of?

    W.

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    Looking at all the options and prices, it is confusing. At Golderstarlasers for instance, there are lasers in the 1500W to 2000W range that are less than $1K. I imagine it makes a difference with how each laser is kitted out, who makes the scanner, who makes the laser module, etc. I don't want to learn from my mistakes.

    * What is a "full diode" laser? They appear to be lower cost, but some have quite a bit of power.

    * If I am looking for a nice balanced white, what wavelengths should I be thinking about?

    * If I can find out who makes the laser modules, who are favored manufacturers in the Chinese market?

    * Does the maker of the scanner matter? What kind of scan rate should I look for?

    * I'd prefer a wide scan angle, is this a challenge?

    * I want to be able to set the power of each color laser arbitrarily to make more colors and to balance the white (not just 7 colors) is this a given?

    * Is there anything I should avoid?

    * Since I will be doing audience scanning, I may need to use a collimator to widen a tight beam. Anyone have any experience with this?

    Thanks for the help. Should I make these general questions a new topic?

    Wes

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    * What is a "full diode" laser? They appear to be lower cost, but some have quite a bit of power.
    Most lasers built over the laser number of years have used a dpss (diode pumped solid state) green. This uses an infrared diode pumping crystals to output green. There are various positives and negatives to this method, but offhand they are slower to react to modulation than green diodes, they tend to have a tighter, nice round beam vs diode green, they may not run at full power under fast modulation, they are more sensitive to cold temperatures vs green diodes, colour gamut of the projector is different with the diode greens (some prefer it, some don't). The standard has traditionally been dpss, the green diodes have not be around very long. For animations, the faster modulation of the green diode is a bonus, however the colours will be different, in the end you just need to weigh the pros and cons, they'll both get the job done.

    * If I am looking for a nice balanced white, what wavelengths should I be thinking about?
    532, 445, 638 (or 638, 640) work well. The deeper reds are sometimes preferred for animations and graphics, but are much less bright for a given power level particularly for beam effects. 520nm green (the diode green) will work too, just a bit different. In the end you can get white from any combination of red, green, blue, and what shade of white is really a matter of preference. Using 532, 445, 638, a 1:1:1 ratio is usually just fine, though some will prefer more / less. If using deeper reds (658nm, etc) you'll need to double the red to get the same balance.

    * If I can find out who makes the laser modules, who are favored manufacturers in the Chinese market?
    Laserwave and CNI are the best chinese manufacturers. Some chinese projectors will also use Arctos and Kvant, which are european manufactured.

    * Does the maker of the scanner matter? What kind of scan rate should I look for?
    Yes. My preference for the best price / performance ratio is the Dragon Tiger DT series, DT40's, or even DT30's. For animations / graphics you can spend a lot more if looking for Cambridge or Eye Magics. But for most people the DT's will be enough, and the price really jumps up from there. There are other lower cost manufacturers as well, but the quality drops pretty quick the price on average.

    * I'd prefer a wide scan angle, is this a challenge?
    Yes, DT40W's (wides) are available with 3mm aperture mirrors only, so all lasers would need to be less than 3mm beam or will result in loss of power around the mirrors. Standard DT30's and 40's however do scan wide enough in most cases (roughly 60 degrees) and are available with 5mm aperture mirrors. For animations, you'll never want to go anywhere near that wide though. Only for beam shows. No scanner will scan high speed graphics at very wide angles.

    * I want to be able to set the power of each color laser arbitrarily to make more colors and to balance the white (not just 7 colors) is this a given?
    Make sure to get Analog modulated laser, rather than TTL. TTL is 7 colours, analog each colour can be dimmed to yield gradients of colours. No need for external adjustments on the laser projector, it's all tuneable with software anyhow.

    * Is there anything I should avoid?
    Ishow Dac, too many have purchased them only to be disappointed. LSX with dac of choice, or Pangolin FB3 are the best options.

    * Since I will be doing audience scanning, I may need to use a collimator to widen a tight beam. Anyone have any experience with this?
    What country are you in ? Some countries audience scanning is not allowed. If doing graphics / animations, you won't want to increase the divergence, tight beams are what's desired. However when doing animations, you typically are not projecting them into the audience, it's onto a wall or surface.

    For audience scanning beam shows, yes you will want to add divergence as needed. Look into the Pangolin Safety Scan Lenses. These can be mounted externally onto the projector and are available in 6 difference strengths. If planning to use them, try to purchase a laser projector with similar size initial beams of red / green / blue as small differences will be amplified by the lenses. Also you absolutely need a scanfail device before even considering it. Some lasers are available with scanfails, though the chinese scanfails are not fast enough to be safe. You'll likely need to purchase a good one and add it yourself to the projector.

    However, I'd advise you not to even consider audience scanning until you are experiences with lasers and know how to measure and calculate mpe at a minimum. It's complicated to do it right, and potentially dangerous if done wrong. There's no need to jump into it immediately.

    Miles

  8. #8
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    If you want to code your own stuff, DAC + Laser + cable (read the other thread on ilda cables... it's basicly a type of common available printer cable) should do fine.
    If you go " Ether Dream DAC" you need to have a lan in the room you set up in or bring a router and cables for that also.

    Sounds like you want to do shows in public, then you also have to do a safety course. (depengin local laws I guess, but you should anyway...)

    I got LSX and some other software to get up and running faster to complete my kit. I also got safety goggles.

    Best regards.

    /Bo

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    This is amazingly complete info. Thanks a bunch.

    Wes

  10. #10
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    you can direct connect the etherdream to your computer with cat5. you just have to make sure the nic on your computer has an ip in the same range as the etherdream's self assigned.

    Quote Originally Posted by BazookaBo View Post
    If you want to code your own stuff, DAC + Laser + cable (read the other thread on ilda cables... it's basicly a type of common available printer cable) should do fine.
    If you go " Ether Dream DAC" you need to have a lan in the room you set up in or bring a router and cables for that also.

    Sounds like you want to do shows in public, then you also have to do a safety course. (depengin local laws I guess, but you should anyway...)

    I got LSX and some other software to get up and running faster to complete my kit. I also got safety goggles.

    Best regards.

    /Bo
    suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness.

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