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Thread: 80 watt YAG - I broke it - Do'h

  1. #21
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    I guess I get to keep this for a while longer...
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    Pat B

    laserman532 on ebay

    Been there, done that, got the t-shirt & selling it in a garage sale.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gashead View Post
    I would hope after the Pro DJ fiasco people have learnt their lesson ?
    Ya, unfortunately, I think all that 'episode' did was to encourage more peeps to try hot-rodding 'em.. 'Well, shoot, if that cinder block can do it...' etc.. But, a) there is a GULF between 'turning the thing on' / getting light out of them, and understanding the deep fundamentals that make for a successful long-term laser-source, much less a touring rig.. b) And soooo-many peeps have suffered DJs "online info-resources" for 'conversion' - He does NOT have things straight / ideal on several aspects of *core* fundamentals, and can't tell ya how many panicked calls / pm's I've fielded from people that fell into his 'help'.. Even to the level I've managed to take conrollers / conversions, they're still but-a shadow of how they *should be* engineered, like Cap'n Bish's..


    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532 View Post
    I try to teach, but some refuse to learn.
    ..ya, and then there's that '21st Century juggernaut' called Reading... Well, Cap'n, it's no reflection on ya / yer Legacy.. 'You can lead a horse to water, but.... If he bites you in the hand, and cyclically-argues how / why 'there's better water over in this other creek'... ..well then you just kick back a Bud and enjoy the 'reality show'..

    ...Cool cavity design.. Nice to see it for only the cost of Internet..
    j
    Last edited by dsli_jon; 03-30-2014 at 10:37.
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  3. #23
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    Laserman,

    I think the age of the Q switched LS may be drawing to an end for a number of reasons. I still like the high peak powers and can ignore the beam quality for pumping dye or non linear stuff in a lab. But, with replacement parts slowly becoming less available, the need to galvo modulate not to mention the large diameter, high peak power beams, the visible pulses when scanned and the power requirements and bulk, these are going to have a hard time competing with multiple diode arrays of 1-2W 520nm diodes.

    These diodes will soon become inexpensive and will probably double in power in less than 2 years. A PBS'ed array of 16 0f these will have a much better beam than an LS and weigh something like 5Kg

    For extreme powers for outdoor displays, the diode pumped and/or disc lasers can fill this niche.

  4. #24
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    @ planters...and the beat goes on... (fyi...i qs blanked cw and pulsed with no problems) Knowledge is the biggest hurdle one must leap to master vag or butt burners. The technology was revolutionary at the time...just like the new diode stuff is now.

    These lasers were used by professionals in huge arenas and large permanent installations around the world (I personally sold 28 ultra rays). This machine was never suited well for hobbits (hobbyist). We did it for a business and a profession...not fun.
    Pat B

    laserman532 on ebay

    Been there, done that, got the t-shirt & selling it in a garage sale.

  5. #25
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    (fyi...i qs blanked cw and pulsed with no problems)
    Ya, I know. But to get the really high average powers like say 40 real watts from one of these don't you have to QS during the on time to improve both fundamental and SHG output?

    These lasers were used by professionals
    I know this too. When I used to lease big medical lasers, they were a lot less fun and the prospect of a "fail" would definitely send me into overdrive along with a search for some Malox

    The technology was revolutionary
    The technology is STILL fantastic. A diode is still just a diode. The new greens use a different semiconductor (GaN) and they strain the lattice to favor a green transition, but they are still just a simple junction. The problem is that the money to develop the LS came from the huge profit for medical devices and the later show use was a benefit.

    I do this only for fun and its a hell of a kick.

  6. #26
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    yes...keep the image moving...find harmonics ...or beam shows - you could do graphics if you wanted them to look like crap... (wrong tool for application)

    doing it for fun is ok... I had fun... I guess...

    Kind of quiet on the other side of the pond...Simon...You Okay?
    Pat B

    laserman532 on ebay

    Been there, done that, got the t-shirt & selling it in a garage sale.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532 View Post
    anything can break in these lasers at anytime, the correct parts are expensive and difficult to source, you must have spare parts on hand at all times, I carried a spare parts kit worth $5K and could flip a rod in in 30 minutes, spare parts will be impossible to come by in the future, any part you break makes the machine nothing but a big ass boat anchor. Very few people have the knowledge & financial abilities to keep one running correctly, less on a fleet of them. At one point in time I had $20K in spare rods and KTP's, Q Switches, Lamps & optics sitting on the shelf to support my base...it was a true nightmare...
    Stop! You're bringing me to the realization that if anything goes wrong with either of mine I'm gonna be left with two fat paperweights! not to mention the money spent buying bits to convert (I've taken them both off their carts to convert into something more, er.. portable?)

    I suppose I still don't really care though.. I wish I had the resources you had at one point Pat, but alas I don't.. I still get a great deal of enjoyment out of them even if they are works in progress. I actually love the learning curve.. Steep it may be! (As Jon full well knows from my many "wtf" emails, hell Rob Stanley has got a few of them emails too!)
    But then this pretty much sums up my Laser love affair, I have a SP "Performa" which I bought years ago, fulfilling a "teenage" dream only problem is she doesn't get run very often. The lack of three phase in my house is a constant bitch. *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532 View Post
    I feel sorry for Simons plight - but he has done nothing but taunt me about these lasers... I use to think that, if the student hasn't learned...the teacher hasn't taught...I try to teach, but some refuse to learn.
    Well, let me complement you on them!
    A Revolutionary piece of technology that not only has saved peoples lives but also put many a Laserist in awe of it's mighty power, Pat you are a pioneer.

    You definitely have my respect which is why you've never received any "help" emails from me (Not saying I don't respect any of the people I have emailed/called/sent various photosets to!) But now I know others have, I only have two questions...

    What timezone are you in?
    and
    Got Skype ?



    All the best.

    Nigel.
    "The horizon leans forward offering you space, to place New steps of change"

  8. #28
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    For info:
    I've just gone through my "beaucoup de docs secrets", current retail wonga on replacement parts for the Pee Vee:

    Code:
    YAG Rod (126mm)     = $3,710
    Lamp housing        = $5,740
    Replacment Arc Lamp = $1,050
    KTP, inc. mount     = $7,250
    LAM's, RAM's, SAM's, fold M's and OC's vary wildly in price depending on exact part.

    While not anywhere near Pat's $20k's hoard of spares, I feel less guilty about my own stash of LSCP parts!
    Last edited by danielbriggs; 03-31-2014 at 06:24.
    - There is no such word as "can't" -
    - 60% of the time it works every time -

  9. #29
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    @ gasshead- Thanks for the compliment! Skype & Timezone? - For your journey on your two burners...I would suggest convert one...use the second one to rape parts from. I'll chime in on a post if necessary, Jon and others probably have fresher minds and documentation, since I stopped working on these 15 years ago. I still own a Cobra...but it sits on a shelf as sort a museum piece (well actually it is in my garage on a shelf collecting dust). You see...I never worked on vag burners, I used it the first time for a gig, then developed the UltraRay with LSCP, which had the big PCB in it that I hated...LSCP would not take it out...which made it a weak link...it was reliable but way over kill...whatev...

    @ Daniel briggs - your stash of spares is a wonderful luxury. If you are doing this for a business, they are critical...if you are doing this for a hobby...you have one of two things...a lot disposable income or a pile of depreciating assets. If you have the illusion that they will appreciate...I don't want to burst your bubble...but the industry of hobbyist that will need your parts...cant afford them... and the professionals that COULD use your parts will opt to upgraded their technology.
    Pat B

    laserman532 on ebay

    Been there, done that, got the t-shirt & selling it in a garage sale.

  10. #30
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    Oh dear, should have expected a backlash from the PL LSCP police

    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532
    I remember when you said this

    "Perhaps it is time for you to retire and leave the fun to us "not so old" people ...
    My plan is to get the 80 watter up and running for the UK LEM but I do not possess a power meter that big ! lol"
    Pat,
    My reference to younger people was originally in reply to the way you always talk down to anyone who dares touch a LSCP other than yourself.
    Yes you have done it all etc..and I do respect your knowledge but as enthusiasts and/or professionals, we have to learn some how especially as talking about these machines is frowned upon here depending on who you are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532
    Im sorry for your loss...but generally speaking...you should have heard the lamp electrodes "boiling" LOOOOOOONNNNGGGG time before breaking a rod...just saying'...
    Why thanks I think ! - Unfortunately, there was no sound at all... !
    All pressures and temperatures were within normal sensor limits so there was no warning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532
    I think I also said in that same thread...be sure you have lots of extra parts Good luck getting her back running..
    Indeed you did, and I agree (even before this incident) !


    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532
    OBTW...I hope the coatings on that $120.00 replacement rod are up to snuff

    just saying'

    I had to edit when thinking of spare parts.... I use to make my wife very nice dangling earrings with broken rods and nice stud earrings out of frapped KTP's
    I hope so too. Once again, thanks for your "sympathy"..lol



    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532
    you will need a minimum of a 4kw affinity all stainless steel chiller with closed DI recirculator (for extended operation as in a permanent installation I would recommend a 6KW) depending on the ambient air temperature of the installation.
    I intend to run it off "town" water and seperate DI loop as designed as it provides the cheapest way of cooling it !

    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532
    I respectfully disagree - it is not a design flaw...it was designed as how it was intended to operate...for the most part these lasers were designed to "idle' (90% of the time) for hours prior to an operation...then a burst of current to burn that vag.
    If there is a situation in the design that can allow the lamp and rod to overheat, then in my opinion it is a design flaw.
    A simple level sensor as found in older models would have saved it !

    I take on board your advice about its operational duty ratio but if the pressure, flow and temperatures are monitored and within normal limits then I dont see why it cannot be used longer as long as other optics are upto the job.
    Yes it is a risk but thats the fun....


    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532
    The laser is Not a CW laser...yes you can run it CW....but your first failures will be the OC mirror bleaching and the secondly...the coatings on the end of the rod will start to delaminate from the outside working towards the center of rod (on a cavity based on all HR mirrors there is too much circulating power for the coatings to handle)

    If he was running green and green stopped (and the lamp still operates normally) it is always a rod problem (either broken or water on ends due to o-rings leaking, which can be caused by removing the qs and misaligning the beam enough to burn the rod o-rings)

    Even if KTP is BLOWN...if there is ANY available IR to meet threshold of lasing...it will emit a scattering spiderweb of some green light (a butt ugly beam, but there will be some green).

    He removed the QS - not good...IR is aligned with QS installed and it basically has ZERO insertion loss

    Advice noted

    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman532

    I would also stop calling it a 80 watt laser until he can show 80 watts on a power meter...I don't mind him saying..." man with 18 inch dick has 80 watt laser" tho... I have a REAL problem people claiming something a laser...frankly...is not...those are called "marketing watts".

    Once you have done what has been done...you will never see 80 watts out of it again until all components are brought up to "factory standards"

    But I could be wrong
    It has a label on the rear stating an average peak of 96 watts

    The hardware is capable of 8O watts so thats good enough for me.
    I am not that dumb to believe it will make that power unless its in tip top condition...



    Lets be clear, I started this thread not for help but to be open as an enthusiast of lasers.
    I am fully aware of the dangers of these lasers and know how fragile and expensive they are as this is my fifth and I still have 3 of them !!
    I purchased it because I like these old school brutes and the PV is challenge and a rare beast so it gives me pleasure to work on it.

    Although my laser optics knowledge is limited at present, I am learning but I know the dangers and limitations of such machines.
    I assure everyone, I take all safety measures and operation seriously and in a professional manor.

    The problem here is, as users of this site, we cant really have real open discussions on these types of lasers so some of us have no choice to learn the hard way. Even now we are discussing this subject, there is the usual crappy attitude to me (or anyone else) who isnt in the PL old boys club.
    I assure you I am not another "Allen" and it gets all a bit tiring when we are all supposed to be laser enthusiasts and when advice is given, its mixed in with back handed insults and bad attitude - maybe because I am not a lover of DPSS... lol

    I guess I am used to other forums where people help and are friendly to each other.!

    This laser will be repaired and may never produce the full 80 watts but I will love it like it was my own child anyway
    Official "vag burner and big ass ION laser" fan club member

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