Your experiences with smoke machine placement outdoors

[Humphry]

Hi all,

So for a outdoor crowd of a few thousand, what is an effective smoke set-up? I have seen local laser gigs with MASSIVE smoke but all concentrated around the stage with very poor results. The enforces my ideal set up of, say 8x continuous 1500W foggers positioned around the crowd for nice dispersal, as opposed to two huge machines by the stage.
But machines positioned on open ground around a rowdy crowd (forget inside the crowd!) such as music festivals puts your equipment at risk. I have been thinking of protective cages as a solution.

I hear that using fans (was actually thinking of leaf blowers?) directed over the crowd from the stage helps. But how much? If the wind is blowing the wrong direction - oops! Or would this counter the wind fairly well?

Another big question I have is controlling the machines. Is DMX a must? I want to be professional but cant help feeling the urge to just set the machines on a continuous output and leave them for the night.

It seems outdoor gigs are an art form in itself; so just looking for any advice on placement, tricks etc.

Thanks!!!

[VDX]

... some twenty years ago I had some experiences with the "Whitesafe"-vaporizers for anti-theft applications - here the link to newer systems: http://www.hi-systems.at/white_safe_...teme_index.asp

We used them only indoor for big halls, but the more powerfull should do their job outside too, especially if placed two or more around the audience ;-)

Viktor

[logsquared]

turn your speakers down before clicking link above!!

[ClearBlu]

Jem glaciators are great when used with the Af1 fan (both dmx).
For extra throw look to make some tubing (old aircon is great)
Mount the fan at the back,then an access panel a couple of feet ahead of the fan for the smoke feed and you'll have cracked it.
You can hire serious fans from automotive or plant hire shops as the af1 fan is great indoors but struggles with high wind, It's easy to do

[aclasers]

Isn't the Jem Glaciator a Low smoke machine with chiller built in? absolutely useless in any draft?

Oil based smoke machines are the best solution, and as many as possible to cover wind changes

Jem glaciators are great when used with the Af1 fan (both dmx).
For extra throw look to make some tubing (old aircon is great)
Mount the fan at the back,then an access panel a couple of feet ahead of the fan for the smoke feed and you'll have cracked it.
You can hire serious fans from automotive or plant hire shops as the af1 fan is great indoors but struggles with high wind, It's easy to do

[ClearBlu]

Any high mass would do (Roadie,X-stream etc) as your not using it for throw (See fans behind) Low smoke is denser by design so hangs longer.
I don't touch "oil crackers" as they cause more trouble than they are worth and in many venues (even in Ibiza) are banned due to residue and potential health issues (not proven but widely covered under H&S and Coshh) but try running one in a venue with a lighting rig and see the residue on the rig after a couple of events. Plus the question was
" Your experiences with smoke machine placement outdoors"
That's my experience,Fan,smoke source and tubing

[Rizard]

I'm also searching for and good way to do that. On my last show outdoors there was almost no wind. But even with 3 smoke machines around 1500 watt each it was sometimes difficult to "control" the smoke. I had my little brother in a boat (oh uhm the show was also above water ) and he controlled the fan and adjusted it when the wind made a turn. Your always to late with that but...

Couple things I learned is that:
- Try to spread as much as you can (better 10 little smoke machines then 2 really big ones)
- Use the wind and don't try to win it from it because, well, you can't!

I was last thinking about something that can spread it evenly. Then I was thinking if you can make something that can spread the smoke like a peacock and let it carry with the wind you would be fine. You don't need dmx then. In the worst case someone that can adjust it when needed.

That are just my thoughts and experiences that I have. Hope it helps you.

Cheers

[Humphry]

- Try to spread as much as you can (better 10 little smoke machines then 2 really big ones)
- Use the wind and don't try to win it from it because, well, you can't!

I was last thinking about something that can spread it evenly. Then I was thinking if you can make something that can spread the smoke like a peacock and let it carry with the wind you would be fine. You don't need dmx then. In the worst case someone that can adjust it when needed.

That are just my thoughts and experiences that I have. Hope it helps you.

Cheers

Exactly my feeling with more smaller smoke machines. Thing is, it seems that there is not a big difference in brightness of beams between 5% haze and 80% haze (which actually obscures). So an overall haze of 5% by using 6x 1500W dispersed evenly is quite decent. The advantage is with this amount you can really surround the show area and not even have to worry about wind changing direction [Excuse the very unprofessional approach to measuring smoke.]

I think that the fact we are using such low powers for outdoors allows us to buy more machines for the same cost. So if you are looking for spread, why not use 2x smaller machines back-to-back and treat as a single unit. Or, using a fan to blow air on to the smoke output seems to dilute it somewhat. Not the same is blowing the smoke through the fan.

Norty also once mentioned facing a fan to the ground which disperses but then you lose the advantage of the air push. I do not use fans but am looking at leaf blowers as an affordable option (very cheap on classifieds) and then one can be worry-free about rust, damage etc. If you do a high-budget event where these are not acceptable, get some flight cases for them with openings AND USE THEM ANYWAY Your leaf blower/smoke combo just turned into a very professional piece of gear.. *WOW* Add a broken lcd with some fancy dials to the flight case and ... no only joking


I can mention a few things I have picked up as a newbie which helps with fog distribution:
- use constant output foggers (non-negotiable)
- do not be afraid to fog a good distance away from the show area to allow the smoke time to disperse, especially if there is a single-direction wind
- long extension cords!
- if your water-based fog is obscuring beams, dilute with some distilled water and shake gently - much cheaper than buying a "haze" type solution, watch the machine's warranty though
- can anyone add to this list?

That's my advice, most of you probably do that anyway, but hopefully it helps someone.

[chad]

you don't want to use leaf blowers. They are too noisy and are not rated for hours of continuous use. Google "air mover" or "carpet drier". These are much better and much quieter.

Your best bet is a bunch of 1500W machines scattered all over the stage. Having them in the audience is more trouble than it is worth.

chad

[Pitts]

Hi guys,
I am far from an expert on outside shows as most of mine have in the past been indoors.
Recently however I have done several outdoors. There is no doubt that smoke is just so important that in my mind it almost rates more than absolute laser power.
Two weeks ago I had a fireworks and laser show to do here in NZ.. When we arrived on site, fifty miles away from home, the wind was 20 knots in the wrong direction. Fortunately the wx map showed a front and sure enough it turned around in the nick of time.
We put smoke machines well foward and out into the crowd.. It was a good thing to do as this got the smoke into the right location on this occasion. I doubt if a fan would really be able to fight a good stiffbreeze.
I would tend to agree with the observation of many machines well spread out.?
Some years ago I saw a laser display done where the guy was carrying a gasoline backpack blower but this had been converted into a smoke machine somehow... This worked like a charm and the guy just walked through the crowd or upwind dispensing smoke where it was required. I have never been able to find out how they built it ... Maybe using Propane gas as a heater..??
Then the blower part to dispense it. There is a hand held generator made in the UK that uses propane but it has a short run life and is pressure cannister based. Its also quite expensive.

So far on the few outdoor shows I have done I have just squeeked in with the wind but I think we need to be real flexible and with lots of cable options as I dont believe you can fight the wind over a large area.
Somehow you need to always use the wind to help you.... You cant push "you know what" up hill.
All I do know is if you are running modest power lasers say 1 to 4 watt or so.. Then smoke is the deal breaker..
Also agree with the too much smoke observation... I have been there and all we do is create our own problem then.

Good smoke= good show.... Bad smoke = no show..

Cheers

Ray
NZ