making your own fog juice?

[buffo]

Got access to a GC-Mass-spec, Mark? That would be a slam-dunk...

(We have a GC here with a head-space sampler, but I don't think the column is calibrated for glycol or glycerin, and in any case we don't have a mass spectrometer...)

Adam

[kecked]

Yes that is why I said send me a sample. I have every tool on the planet. I think nmr and IR would do the trick. First rotovap off the water, then run the IR. That will show the glycols clearly. Problem with GC is I need standards and problem with MS is its a mix of closely related glycols with very similar fragments. NMR lets me see the functional groups well, then run the GC with no standard for relative abundance. Once we have that then I can take the output of the GC and NMR each peak to determine which glycol functional substitution it is. Will take a few lunches to do but not hard. Can then use MS to confirm the NMR and IR.

If I charged for all this work it would be 2-4k. You can buy a lot of fog juice for that amount. Last, there will be a stabilizer in the mix that will be inorganic. I'm not doing the work to separate and isolate it so just pick one. For example sodium metabisulfite would work but who wants to add sulfur to a mix that will be heated so you need to find a BHT or such.

[buffo]

I think nmr and IR would do the trick.

You really do have all the tools! nice...

Problem with GC is I need standards and problem with MS is its a mix of closely related glycols with very similar fragments.

Agree on the standards, but the GC-MS combo should ID both the original glycols and any esters they throw in. Might take some fooling around with the column packing to get good separation though.

NMR lets me see the functional groups well

Yeah, this is the cat's meow. Unfortunately, our lab doesn't have the budget...

If I charged for all this work it would be 2-4k.

At least! Probably more than that, depending on how precise you nail the formula down to...

Last, there will be a stabilizer in the mix that will be inorganic.

Run a quick and dirty TOC test to determine the organic fraction. Anything left must be stabilizer. No idea what they'd pick for that though.

For example sodium metabisulfite would work

ACK! Instead of fog fluid you'd have FART fluid! HAHA! Well, assuming it got hot enough, that is.

Maybe phosphates instead? Nitrate? (Might release NOx though - bad...)

Adam

[buffo]

I've never seen a fog fluid that was translucent green. They've always been crystal clear.

Adam

[buffo]

The scented fluids I've seen have some color to them, but I never use them because they tend to clog the heaters and they smell like ass (at least in my opinion).

But all the fluids I've ever used (Black Label, Rosco, Froggy's, Etc) have been clear. Strange...

Adam

[mixedgas]

I'll agree the colors are probably a stabilizer of some sort:

I worked in a lab where I used water and solvent based mixtures of Polymers for 8 years. Our mixes had to be controlled precisely for a given viscosity, if they started to break down, the experiment results were sloppy. To keep some of my water based mixes from being eaten by bacteria or broken down by visible light, UV, and oxidation, I'd add a trace amount of a dye and a tiny trace amount of methanol. Rhodamine 6G worked wonders, our Israeli Colleagues independently found Kiton Red and Fluorescein to be of use. Light was mostly the problem, even in a Brown bottle, a solution might be only good for two weeks. Add a dye and get three months or more.

I imagine the mixes are colored by the stabilizer or at the factory to aid in handling/safety. All of these materials should be close to water clear in their natural state.

I'm surprised that a stabilizer or antibacterial would be needed, but the cost of shipping a replacement pallet of fluids to Arkansas can be immense. So I imagine the pros add a little harmless stabilizer to the sauce.

Incidentally I added concentrated R6G to some juice once. I figured I'd try for military style, fluorescent smoke. Turns out the machine is not hot enough to make dense clouds of orange-red smoke, and the nozzle clogs with rock hard chunks of dye. You really need pyrochemicals to reach the temperatures needed. I ended up, as expected, with stained concrete. I was young and stupid, but the experiment had to be done. :-)

Steve

[kecked]

they add the color. it is a clear liquid. the color is a dye. I think and this is a guess they use fluorcein or rhodamine. A simple food additive like bht would work fine. Glycol is a complex sugar so bacteria love to eat it.

[mixedgas]

You probably have too much water in your mixture or the glycol settled to the bottom of the tank. You must really mix the mixture well, or it will quickly settle into two parts. This is one of the reasons good fog fluids have at least three components, to prevent mixture separation.

The dye does not kill bacteria, it stops UV light from breaking down the fluid so the bacteria can eat it. Light breaks the glycol slowly down into sugar.

Steve

[kecked]

http://www.theatrefx.com/moreinfo_fg...g_machine.html


I want one

[Laser Wizardry]

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