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Thread: Here we go... illegal lasers

  1. #11
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    I understand what your saying. It is frustrating. I guess what I meant was litigation should be incentive for people that wish to do legit shows.

    The other problem with the rave scenario is most of these laser operators don't have a clue their projectors are dangerous. So where is the gov going wrong? Is it lack of policing of lack of education? That's a whole other debate though.

    When the promoter at a rave asks me to scan the crowd, like the last guy he had, I inform him of the dangers. Also, when the jack off in the next room pulls some beat up shinp crap out of a duffel bag I tell the promoter to read my contract. Then I tell him my lasers don't come on till the other lasers are put back in the guys car.

    I feel the best I can do is lead by example and try to inform light guys and promoters when possible.

  2. #12
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    The illegal laserists around my parts know damn well the dangers of what they are doing, they just don't care. The primary offender, Mark Welgarz, has been providing illegal, crowd scanning laser shows for well over a decade; no laser police in site!

    There are also at least 2 people in Metro Detroit actively selling illegal projectors with powers approaching a full watt. One of these sellers has a store front, the other uses craigslist, and after explaining the dangers & rules to the cl seller, he just took the pics of cl, but he is still selling them. In fact, I would say about a third of the bars/nightclubs/strip clubs I walk into have an illegal projector from one of these 2 clowns, and they are always being used to crowd scan.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by logsquared View Post
    I understand what your saying. It is frustrating. I guess what I meant was litigation should be incentive for people that wish to do legit shows.

    The other problem with the rave scenario is most of these laser operators don't have a clue their projectors are dangerous. So where is the gov going wrong? Is it lack of policing of lack of education? That's a whole other debate though.

    When the promoter at a rave asks me to scan the crowd, like the last guy he had, I inform him of the dangers. Also, when the jack off in the next room pulls some beat up shinp crap out of a duffel bag I tell the promoter to read my contract. Then I tell him my lasers don't come on till the other lasers are put back in the guys car.

    I feel the best I can do is lead by example and try to inform light guys and promoters when possible.
    I am curious to see what your contract says that enforces that. But it is a good idea.

  4. #14
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    Wow! That's just awful.

    On a side note. I used to do sound for raves in Detroit on occasion about 12 years ago. The last time I worked there (besides some more recent DEMF after parties) We ended up in a really shady part of town. Literally, abandoned cars up on blocks up and down street. Apparently this place was run by Russian mafia? In one of the back rooms we found dozens of cars. On of my crew said, "dude look at all the driver side windows". I kid you not, every one had a bullet hole in the drivers door window or drivers side of the windshield. In another room we found a wall riddled with bullet holes and a lamp rigged to the ceiling pointing at the bullet filled wall. "interrogation room"? My crew and I where really freaked and didn't want to set-up. These people were no joke. They tried to lock us in the complex and threaten us into unloading. We asked one of the locals how long it would take for the police to show up if something went wrong. He said, "cops... cops don't come to this part of town". So, we basically told the building owners our union chief was driving around trying to find us and we would get fined if we didn't take a lunch break. We promised we would be back to set-up. They unlocked the gate and we got the hell out of Detroit.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by drm916 View Post
    I am curious to see what your contract says that enforces that. But it is a good idea.
    Its simple to enforce. They pull out their lasers. Mine go off. 9 out of 10 times I am also supplying the PA too. So, if they don't want to pay for the lasers the sound gets shut off too. End of party! The underground rave scene in the midwest has become really shady and the creativity is almost gone. So, i rarely do them anymore.

  6. #16
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    Maryland
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    Thanks for the post Brad. I'm glad someone else is noticing.

    To Stiffler's point, I KNOW, I KNOW that it looks like nothing is happening. But that is not true.

    Look, we have all gotten used to crime dramas and COPS where some law breaker's door gets kicked in, on go the bracelets and out goes the impounded merchandise.

    That is what we look at as justice, but it is not the only kind and not the only way it happens.

    I strongly agree that more FDA actions should be public. No question. Then the tree would make a sound when it falls. This has been my criticism of FDA policy for a long time. But things do happen, and they have teeth. I submit the recent recall of everything Laserworld sold in the United States over a 4 year period as an example. That did not just happen without enforcement activities. Ether did not bring that to pass.

    Look, FDA does not have the resources to go after all or even most illegal laser users. Its just the way it is. Growth in the market has dramatically outpaced their enforcement resources but MUCH more happens than you know and I get a little annoyed when people say that there is no incentive to be legal. As if somehow doing the right thing was not a good enough reason. As if the only thing that could compel us to act in a certain way was someone standing behind us waiting to punish us for not doing things the right way.

    Do people get away with it? Yes. for sure. Do they get caught? All the time (especially when reported) and they tend to get their hand slapped. If someone complains again, they get their hand slapped much harder. Generally a third complaint brings out the teeth.

    It takes too long, it is too gentle, and it is not public enough. But it is real, it does happen, and back to the OP... sometimes people just ignore the hand slap because they see money to be made and don't care who it hurts. So, someone will complain again and the teeth will come out.

    Standing by and complaining never got anyone anywhere of consequence. If you're upset, insist that your government serve your interests. That's why you pay taxes and is your right as a citizen.

  7. #17
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    A while back one of the forum members here reported illegal activity to his local CDRH officer/office. Not only did this NOT lead to the offending company being reprimanded, it led to this member's own shows being highly scrutinized. So again, where is the incentive to do the right thing? While I struggle with the paperwork to make my projectors legal, there are a dozen ass holes making money on their Chinese shit. I get that the CDRH can't keep up, but it still sucks.

  8. #18
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    I know of one time that the CDRH did something. A friend of mine reported an illegal laser operator that did audience scanning weekly at a Seattle night club. The CDRH told him that they did not have any travel budget for enforcement but would contact the Seattle Fire Marshal and have him check it out, as well as the CDRH sending letters to the nightclub telling them that they needed to cease having him use his lasers.
    The club quit using him for lasers and went with someone that I had built a laser for, but unfortunately the club wanted 2 lasers and so the guy I built a projector for decided to go and buy a chines projector because it was cheap and he had a variance for the other projector for years without ever being checked, so he said, "why spend the extra money, they never checked me, and the club is happy cause I have a variance."

    As an FYI, nothing ever happened to the guy with the illegal projectors, and his ENTIRE INFO, First and last name, address, email, website, EVERYTHING WAS GIVEN TO THE CDRH BUT THEY DIDNT DO ANYTHING TO THE ILLEGAL LASER OPERATOR. I'm afraid its going to take a governors daughter being blinded by lasers for them to do anything about it, just like with mining or anything else, no checks until there is SERIOUS ISSUE, then everyone will have a microscope up their ass…

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by logsquared View Post
    Wow! That's just awful.

    On a side note. I used to do sound for raves in Detroit on occasion about 12 years ago. The last time I worked there (besides some more recent DEMF after parties) We ended up in a really shady part of town. Literally, abandoned cars up on blocks up and down street. Apparently this place was run by Russian mafia? In one of the back rooms we found dozens of cars. On of my crew said, "dude look at all the driver side windows". I kid you not, every one had a bullet hole in the drivers door window or drivers side of the windshield. In another room we found a wall riddled with bullet holes and a lamp rigged to the ceiling pointing at the bullet filled wall. "interrogation room"? My crew and I where really freaked and didn't want to set-up. These people were no joke. They tried to lock us in the complex and threaten us into unloading. We asked one of the locals how long it would take for the police to show up if something went wrong. He said, "cops... cops don't come to this part of town". So, we basically told the building owners our union chief was driving around trying to find us and we would get fined if we didn't take a lunch break. We promised we would be back to set-up. They unlocked the gate and we got the hell out of Detroit.
    Do you know what part of Detroit you were in (street names perhaps)? While it's true that Detroit can be dangerous, it is also EXTREMELY desolate.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by slicklasers View Post
    I know of one time that the CDRH did something. A friend of mine reported an illegal laser operator that did audience scanning weekly at a Seattle night club. The CDRH told him that they did not have any travel budget for enforcement but would contact the Seattle Fire Marshal and have him check it out, as well as the CDRH sending letters to the nightclub telling them that they needed to cease having him use his lasers.
    The club quit using him for lasers and went with someone that I had built a laser for, but unfortunately the club wanted 2 lasers and so the guy I built a projector for decided to go and buy a chines projector because it was cheap and he had a variance for the other projector for years without ever being checked, so he said, "why spend the extra money, they never checked me, and the club is happy cause I have a variance."

    As an FYI, nothing ever happened to the guy with the illegal projectors, and his ENTIRE INFO, First and last name, address, email, website, EVERYTHING WAS GIVEN TO THE CDRH BUT THEY DIDNT DO ANYTHING TO THE ILLEGAL LASER OPERATOR. I'm afraid its going to take a governors daughter being blinded by lasers for them to do anything about it, just like with mining or anything else, no checks until there is SERIOUS ISSUE, then everyone will have a microscope up their ass…
    Yeah but if you shine a green laser pointer in the air the FBI will be after you!!

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